Mad Dog -VS- Busse... Inside Pics!

M

Mike Turber

Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
5,461
I will be posting my results of the first part of the 7" knife tests tomorrow.

Many of you have compared the Busse and the Mad Dog. There has been great controversy as to the handle materials and how they are joined.


Here is a pic of the Mad Dog ATAK and the Busse #7 handles. This cut away view shows quite a bit of technology from both camps.

mad-busse-handle.jpg

I will leave you with this pic as it has never been shown before. This is a BFC Exclusive and I will explain the pics in great detail sometime tomorrow. My hands are so filled with blisters right now, it is hard for me to type. In fact, my wife Lori is typing this now as my hands are too sore to type a full report.

I will say this. Mad Dog makes an excellent fighter and it shows in his knife. Busse however, makes a much better all around knife for all practical purposes and it shows in the test results I have compiled. Cold Steel is a great knife as well, but to be honest it is the cause of most of my blisters and that plain sucks! The Fallkniven is a really great knife for the money. Camillus's knife was a big disappointment. The sheath kept it in the race though.

Who won? Well you will have to wait for my full test results tomorrow.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
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www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!


[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 24 October 1999).]
 
Glad to see the brass grommet through the Busse's tang.

Looking forward to your report hamburger hands.

jeff

And thanks for effort, time, sacrificial skin, everything!

[This message has been edited by stray (edited 24 October 1999).]
 
If you wondering what to do with the blades after the test I'd like to try and put a handle on one.
 
Hi Mike,

If you don't mind me asking, what did you use to get the handles off so cleanly?


------------------
LD
"Every Dog Has His Day"
BFC Member Since October 2, 1998


 
Hello Folks,

YEP the good old MORTISED tang construction.

Very Strong I am informed if properly
executed and applied right.

There was an Article on this method in
Blade magazine Refering to D.E Henry
using this method with great Success.

Also i am kind of Concerned with the
fact that the Tangs on both Knives Taper
from the Front(Guard Area) to the Back (pommel) area. The one with the Brass thong
hole liner is a better Anchor than the other, But i just hate corroded Green Brass after use in certain ENVIRONMENTS. 8-)

I relate it to having a tapered ice cream cone(the Handle). As long as the ice Cream is Being Pushed into the Cone Taper it stays in place , if it is held upside down it
fall`s out!!

Now i know this isnt likely but if Degradation occurs do to Enviromental(hehe)
or to Stress Factors and Said Bond is Weakened Then??? ( insert Truth here )

I would go on to Explain how the method of Making the M.E.U.K Handle to Tang Mortised construction is Vastly Different,
and superior to Both above examples but
I will reserve that for the M.E.U.K
Web page.

As i dont think that this is what this Thread is about.

Its about the Two above knives not M.E.U.K

Anyway thats my .02


Have a Great Lords Day,

M.E.U.K & Company

[This message has been edited by TooApoint (edited 24 October 1999).]
 
OK TooApoint, I get your point but I have to disagree. One is glued, the other screwed (kinda).

I know which one I would trust to not sling off the handle. And I feel that there is a significant difference between a straight taper and a curved one. Especially when the curved one has such a slight taper that it is hardly measureable and pinned to boot.

I work for an adhesive company and have used epoxy for many years. But I know it does crack under stress and is best used for bonding in thin layers. Gimme the grommet.

And TAP, feel free to plug your product in the proper forum.

jeff
 
Hello Folks,


I know how the one knife is assembled,
As M.E.U.K uses a similar Contruction Method,
although it is different in a few respects.

As far as the Blade with the Brass
thong hole liner, Is its handle a Injection molded to the Knife construction , or is the Handle Molded then installed on the Knife??

I am always looking for a way to improve
the Products M.E.U.K is producing, although
i dont have an injection Molding machine!!
( Christmas maybe)!!

Thanks,

M.E.U.K
 
M.E.U.K,

It pays to know your competition! The thong hole belongs to a Busse Basic #7. (See Title)

The handel is made of Resiprene C which is a type of rubber.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!


[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 25 October 1999).]
 
OK here is my take on the tangs shown above.

Lets start at the handle/blade juncture and work back tot he pommel.

The Busse uses a radius angle rather than a 90 degree angle like the Mad Dog. Does this make the Busse better? It does in my book as there will be no shearing effect. Also it aborbs a lot of the energy that would normally be directly transferred into the handel. Need proof? Grab and ATAK and a Busse and chop with it. The Busse feels good doing this and the MAD DOG rattles your hand.

So what does this mean? Nothing if you never plan to chop with your 7" ATAK.

Let's move farther down. The tang on the Busse is more narrow and so is the handle. I like the bigger grip on the MAD DOG better but in actual hard use the Busse handel feels quite good. If only the handel was used for consideration I would buy the MAD DOG as a fighter and the Busse for all other tasks.

Further down I start loosing confidence in the MAD DOG. The taper just leaves me thinking it will fail and the glue/resin/whatever just does not envoke a confidence building thought. The Busse has a visible anchor and maybe the MAD DOG will hold but actually seeing the anchor sure helps.

There just is not enough evidence from either camp to say who is better.

MAD DOG claims that his anchoring system does not fail. Good for him!

Jerry's handel just looks like a bit more thought went into it.

If Jerry ever decides to make a pure fighter, MAD DOG better watch out!

So far the Basic line appears to be more on the utility side. Comparing the MAD DOG and Busse just is not fair I guess but it is only natural to do so.

One thing is for certain and if you want to argue the point with go for it because I have WAAAYYYYYY too much evidence now to back it up.

INFI rocks and stomps MAD DOG's steel and his differential heat treating period!

You can quote me on that
smile.gif


In fact I would even argue that Lynn Thompson's Carbon V is better and at damn near half the price or less it is most certainly the better buy.

I can't wait to test the Busse #9 against the Cold Steel Trailmaster. That is going to be fun!

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Oooohh boy! Mike you`re gonna be a mighty unpopular guy on KF`s MadDog forum! LOL! I generally can`t stomach all the Tactical Church BS etc. but I`ll have to stop by to hear what they have to say about this thread and your recent test (which was awesome BTW!) . Bravo for having the guts to tell it like you see it without sugar coating it.
smile.gif
Marcus
 
Yeah, I was just thinking about how this is going to be one of the most controversial and talked about topics in recent months for both forum sites.

First of all, I think that's one of the best "insider" pictures I've ever seen. So, I am really excited about that.

Now, I'm not taking sides on this, but aside from the level of confidence we feel subjectively, have you done any tests to see how strong the tangs are held in place respectively? Mike? Actually, even if it was, I have to wonder if test differences would be negligible for "real world" applications?

Also, can you tell me exactly why you feel the Mad Dog is purely suited as a fighter? I don't doubt your claims. I'm just taking the opportunity to get some information.
 
Hello Mike,

Gosh, this is what we call a mighty comparaison !

Also you go to the same conclusion when with Fred Perrin we have tested our ATAK2.
Also we could not cut wood with it as we think it was really not made for that.
And soldiers needs to cut wood a lot.

Our results with the Chris Reeve Project II or the Fallkniven A1 where much more better.
(Both were excellent as all around knives and also fighting knives and throwing knives!)
Simply the facts.

cheers,

JM
 
Very surprising to see the 90 angles on the ATAK. I would never have guessed that, primarily because of the very slow transition to the primary grind in the choil area.

-Cliff
 
Anybody know the difference between Busse's INFI and Modified INFI in the Basics Line?
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't get to visit the forumns too often.
Also, where can I view the complete Basics lineup online?
Thanks,
Lenny
 
INFI was probably altered to make a steel that was easier/cheaper/faster to make knives from so as to meet the demands of a line of production blades.

As far as performance, M-INFI is slightly behind regular INFI, there are some comparisons by Busse on the net. The basics are also a couple of RC points softer than the regular INFI line.

-Cliff
 
Mike, that is an extremely interesting picture. Could you do me a favor? Break the blades free of the half-grip that is still on them and tell us how hard or easily each came free.

I'm not sure this will actually tell us anything about the security of the handle, but it seems to me that if you have to take a sledge hammer to either of them to get the tang free, that *would* say something about the reliability of the tang in the handle. On the other hand if you frown at them and they fall free, that may give us a vague indication also.

Yes? No?
 
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