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Anyone seen this, looks like an authentic one, I know these are hard to find for the collector..... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1119114295
MadDog Knife on Ebay
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Gollnick
Musical Director
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Welcome aboard.
Generally speaking, we don't do "auction spotting" here. The auction sites are well-known and people who are interested in buying a knife at auction can follow them for themselves.
There's been a lot of talk about counterfeit MadDog knives, but I don't know that it's ever been proven.
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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
Generally speaking, we don't do "auction spotting" here. The auction sites are well-known and people who are interested in buying a knife at auction can follow them for themselves.
There's been a lot of talk about counterfeit MadDog knives, but I don't know that it's ever been proven.
------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
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You could always x-ray it and see if it had flying saucer keys ground into the end of the tang...
Walt
PS; MD will authenticate alleged spec ops knives and give them provenance if genuine.
Walt
PS; MD will authenticate alleged spec ops knives and give them provenance if genuine.
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I wasn't aware that there was a SEAL team 5...
Can anyone tell me if there was? I try to follow the SEALS, but so much of it is never reported here, and the net can only tell me so much....
James
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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
Can anyone tell me if there was? I try to follow the SEALS, but so much of it is never reported here, and the net can only tell me so much....
James
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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
dogman
Gold Member
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1-6, 8
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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
<A HREF="http://www.doggettcustomknives.com" TARGET=_blank>
</A><A HREF="http://www.customknifedirectory.com" TARGET=_blank>
</A>
------------------
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
<A HREF="http://www.doggettcustomknives.com" TARGET=_blank>
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Brad,
I don't find it hard to believe since it is basically Mad Dog black paint over hard chrome. Any little bit of friction will wear the paint off, the hard chrome is not scratched, therefore the paint will give well before the hard chrome and well before the heat treated steel. Besides, if Mad Dog ever heard you saying that his paint is harder than his steel, look out
I don't find it hard to believe since it is basically Mad Dog black paint over hard chrome. Any little bit of friction will wear the paint off, the hard chrome is not scratched, therefore the paint will give well before the hard chrome and well before the heat treated steel. Besides, if Mad Dog ever heard you saying that his paint is harder than his steel, look out
Painted black? Pardon my ignorance, but this knife looks like a taiwanese POS. I can't imagine our elite troops trusting their lives to this.
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Dave - You hit the nail on the head. Here's some info that rick@rlaenterprises lists in his e-bay profile (my emphasis added):
So much for honesty...
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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
Member NCCKG, SCAK, and AKTI
Deo Vindice
[This message has been edited by Senator (edited 03-04-2001).]
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Senator:
So much for honesty...
</font>
Now, now - there's a difference between shilling and dishonesty...
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From www.dictionary.com :
shill [shil ] noun (plural shills)
1. pretended customer or gambler: somebody who pretends to be an interested customer or gambler in order to lure others into buying or gambling
2. self-interested promoter: somebody who promotes somebody or makes a sales pitch for something for reasons of self-interest
Deliberately misrepresenting oneself as a disintersted third party is dishonest in my book. You make of it what you will.
shill [shil ] noun (plural shills)
1. pretended customer or gambler: somebody who pretends to be an interested customer or gambler in order to lure others into buying or gambling
2. self-interested promoter: somebody who promotes somebody or makes a sales pitch for something for reasons of self-interest
Deliberately misrepresenting oneself as a disintersted third party is dishonest in my book. You make of it what you will.
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Just being precise, Kelly!
Shill has it's own, less than wholesome, connotation to it. The first definition is verboten on E-Bay. The second, which I think is the case here, is just weasely. He never told us that he wasn't the seller, he just never told us that he was (although he did hide behind a second e-mail addy).
Shifty? Yes.
Slimey? You betcha.
Dishonest? Judgement call.
[This message has been edited by Brian_Turner (edited 03-04-2001).]
Shill has it's own, less than wholesome, connotation to it. The first definition is verboten on E-Bay. The second, which I think is the case here, is just weasely. He never told us that he wasn't the seller, he just never told us that he was (although he did hide behind a second e-mail addy).
Shifty? Yes.
Slimey? You betcha.
Dishonest? Judgement call.
[This message has been edited by Brian_Turner (edited 03-04-2001).]
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I contacted Scott Moore: mooreknives@yahoo.com about this knife, as he is knowledgeable in this area. Scott is the person who has been a Mad Dog dealer for the longest time, and was in the brown water (littoral) navy in Vietnam.
Here is the story of the ATAK (Advanced Tactical Assault Knife) series of knives.
The first ones were made in CA, and were marked as is shown on the ebay knife. The CNSWG stands for Commander, Naval Special Warfare Group). Essentially all of these knives, about 300 in all, were sold to the USN. The USN insisted on a non-reflective coating (Kalgard was used) and a sharpened false edge (to insure penetration through body armor). This necessitated file work on the spine so that the blade had uniform flexibility throughout its' length. Serial numbers started at 1 for this group and were consecutive.
A small number of knives were made next, for a foreign country; these lacked the CNSWG marking. About 50 to 75 of these were made in CA. They are rarely encountered.
Mad Dog then moved to AZ, and continued production of the ATAK. He began a new serial numbering system, with the first knife being A 500 (the A standing for AZ). These still had the Kalgard coating, sharpened false edge, and file work. About 500 of these were made. There was a change to another coating, also a baked on finish, somewhere in this production run. The second finish is more matte. The idea was to make the coating more durable. In addition, the markings are now distal to the choil, instead of proximal to it.
The first two knives in the photo below are from the 'A' production run: A 605 and A 936; these then come from near the beginning and near the end of the 'A' series knives. The first has the Kalgard coating, the second has the replacement coating. All these knives, incidentally, even the CNSWG ones, have hard chrome under the black coating.
'A' series knives were sold to the USN and to civilians. There is no difference between the knives sold to either buyer. Mad Dog kept a record of the knives sold to the USN, and will provide provenance for a nominal sum if the knife is sent to him for examination and documentation.
The next change was dropping the black coating, the sharpened false edge, and the file work (since without the sharpened false edge the file work was not necessary). The USN was finally convinced that the ATAK would go through body armor just fine without the sharpened false edge. The markings on these knives is slightly different from the 'A' series, as can be seen in the photo below. The periods after each letter of the acronyms have been dropped, and the marking is two lines instead of four.
A knife of this type is third from the top in the photo.
The next change was to make the choil longer near the spine than it was at the edge, thus giving the choil a diagonal appearance when viewed from the side. This was done to provide more strength to the spine. At about the same time, a change in the hard chrome type was made; this can be identified by a shinier appearance, with the temper line easily seen through the hard chrome. The markings were changed again, to simply 'Mad Dog.' The bottom knife in the photo is of this type. The only change between this type of knife and current production is that the hard chrome has been changed back to a more matte finish.
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279505&p=42720026&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
</A>
Here is a close up of the markings on the same four knives:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279505&p=42705603&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
</A>
Here is a close up of the file worked spine, and a plain one:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279505&p=42705611&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
</A>
Incidentally, if anyone is unsure as to what is meant by the term 'positive included angle' as used by Mad Dog, the top knife provides an excellent example of it. Let the vertical line of the handle be the y axis; draw the x axis horizontally at the proximal edge of the knife. You will see as you go towards the point, the edge of the knife, while straight, dips below the x axis. By convention, an angle in the clockwise direction is positive. The effect of a positive included angle is to increase the cutting ability of the edge while drawing it back; this is similar to the effect of a recurve, without weakening the blade. At least this is the manner in which I understand the concept.
Any errors in the above are entirely my fault. Any questions, comments or corrections are welcomed. In the hope that this sheds some light on this subject, I remain, yr. obt. svt.
Walt Welch
[This message has been edited by Walt Welch (edited 03-04-2001).]
Here is the story of the ATAK (Advanced Tactical Assault Knife) series of knives.
The first ones were made in CA, and were marked as is shown on the ebay knife. The CNSWG stands for Commander, Naval Special Warfare Group). Essentially all of these knives, about 300 in all, were sold to the USN. The USN insisted on a non-reflective coating (Kalgard was used) and a sharpened false edge (to insure penetration through body armor). This necessitated file work on the spine so that the blade had uniform flexibility throughout its' length. Serial numbers started at 1 for this group and were consecutive.
A small number of knives were made next, for a foreign country; these lacked the CNSWG marking. About 50 to 75 of these were made in CA. They are rarely encountered.
Mad Dog then moved to AZ, and continued production of the ATAK. He began a new serial numbering system, with the first knife being A 500 (the A standing for AZ). These still had the Kalgard coating, sharpened false edge, and file work. About 500 of these were made. There was a change to another coating, also a baked on finish, somewhere in this production run. The second finish is more matte. The idea was to make the coating more durable. In addition, the markings are now distal to the choil, instead of proximal to it.
The first two knives in the photo below are from the 'A' production run: A 605 and A 936; these then come from near the beginning and near the end of the 'A' series knives. The first has the Kalgard coating, the second has the replacement coating. All these knives, incidentally, even the CNSWG ones, have hard chrome under the black coating.
'A' series knives were sold to the USN and to civilians. There is no difference between the knives sold to either buyer. Mad Dog kept a record of the knives sold to the USN, and will provide provenance for a nominal sum if the knife is sent to him for examination and documentation.
The next change was dropping the black coating, the sharpened false edge, and the file work (since without the sharpened false edge the file work was not necessary). The USN was finally convinced that the ATAK would go through body armor just fine without the sharpened false edge. The markings on these knives is slightly different from the 'A' series, as can be seen in the photo below. The periods after each letter of the acronyms have been dropped, and the marking is two lines instead of four.
A knife of this type is third from the top in the photo.
The next change was to make the choil longer near the spine than it was at the edge, thus giving the choil a diagonal appearance when viewed from the side. This was done to provide more strength to the spine. At about the same time, a change in the hard chrome type was made; this can be identified by a shinier appearance, with the temper line easily seen through the hard chrome. The markings were changed again, to simply 'Mad Dog.' The bottom knife in the photo is of this type. The only change between this type of knife and current production is that the hard chrome has been changed back to a more matte finish.
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279505&p=42720026&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
Here is a close up of the markings on the same four knives:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279505&p=42705603&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
Here is a close up of the file worked spine, and a plain one:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279505&p=42705611&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
Incidentally, if anyone is unsure as to what is meant by the term 'positive included angle' as used by Mad Dog, the top knife provides an excellent example of it. Let the vertical line of the handle be the y axis; draw the x axis horizontally at the proximal edge of the knife. You will see as you go towards the point, the edge of the knife, while straight, dips below the x axis. By convention, an angle in the clockwise direction is positive. The effect of a positive included angle is to increase the cutting ability of the edge while drawing it back; this is similar to the effect of a recurve, without weakening the blade. At least this is the manner in which I understand the concept.
Any errors in the above are entirely my fault. Any questions, comments or corrections are welcomed. In the hope that this sheds some light on this subject, I remain, yr. obt. svt.
Walt Welch
[This message has been edited by Walt Welch (edited 03-04-2001).]
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