Made in the USA

spraay · Aug 8, 2005

It seems there's a lot of discussion around which knives by Buck are made in the USA. I've recently revived my interest in collecting knives. I've been very excited by what I've seen from Buck. I'm looking to add only US made knives to my collection. Is there a reference to determine which models are made exclusively in the United States? I've been buying knives on the Internet for convenience, and not all shops say if a knife is domestically produced or not.

For instance, on Knifecenter.com, there is a model BU110 Folding Hunter with a leather sheath for $39.95. This strikes me as pretty inexpensive. Is this a US made Buck?

Any help here would be appreciated.

Thanks,
SP

guy g · Aug 8, 2005

I believe all of the 110's are USA made. walmart sells 110's at $29.95. It's tough to tell the foreign made knives with out seeing first. Buck has not been real up front about which are US and which are foreign. Considering the move and all, that is my only long standing complaint about them.
I know most of the Whittaker line, the 370 series (walmart) small folders, Diamondbacks, Eccos,some 300 series, are foriegn. BTW, I own most of the above mentioned. They really are not that bad of knives. In head to head the China made Bucks compared very well with the Schrade products they replace.

LFH · Aug 8, 2005

We have a sporting goods store called Academy. Last 110 I got there (April 05) it was $27 and change. Was under $30 after tax.
And the 110's are still made in USA and it had a leather sheath.

spraay · Aug 9, 2005

I can appreciate that some of the foreign made knives are of good quality. Many foreign made products are. I buy them where it makes sense. Collecting knives is a luxury for me, so I want those dollars to pay premium wages to people who will pump money back into the US economy. I have nothing against the folks in foreign countries who make goods for our market, but I'm taking care of home in my knife hobby.

I'm planning on adding a 110 or finger groove 110 to my knife collection. I grew up carrying the 'Pakistan' clones of the Buck 110, and now that I can afford the real thing, I want it.

Thanks!
Shane

JD Mandrell · Aug 9, 2005

spraay said:
Is there a reference to determine which models are made exclusively in the United States? I've been buying knives on the Internet for convenience, and not all shops say if a knife is domestically produced or not.SP

The knife itself will, by law they must have the country of origin on them, on the blade, or somewhere on the packaging will say "China" or "Tiawan".

Buying online does make it more difficult, but the first thing I would do when looking at one is come here and do a search under that model name before you buy, more often than not you will probably find someone has talked about it here.

Guy G is right, Buck needs to be a little more open about this. I don't have a problem with Buck outsourcing, economics is what it is, but some people have bought Buck's without looking closely and get home and find they bought something that they assumed was US made and have felt jilted.

Joe Houser · Aug 11, 2005

Buying online does poes a problem. The country of origin is on the box/clam packaging and stamped on the blade but that does not always help if you buy it online or through a catalogue.
There is talk of making it even more prominent on the packaging but that still wont help in all cases.
I have an opinion, formed by answering calls/emails about this topic, and that is that Buck has been strictly USA made for so long that people just assume they are buying USA when they pick a Buck off the store shelf. They don't even look that close. Unless it was extremely large bold type, "MADE IN CHINA" most folks would not even notice. Just my opinion.
And I do agree, although reluctantly, that the knives are up to par quality wise. I can't throw any stones at them for that.

spraay · Aug 11, 2005

I picked up a 110 at a local store. I checked, and it said 'Made in USA' right on the back of package. Meijers stores here in Michigan carry a few Buck knives and you'd have to know the 110 is one of them. It's beauty. They had the 'Prince' model as well, and I got one of them. It's sized a little bit better for EDC in dress clothes. They are two sharp, classic looking knives and I was quite pleased to add them to my collection.

SP

guy g · Aug 12, 2005

Joe, Two things. 1) if the retailers would represent your products in a proper manner, it would eliminate alot of issues. 2) even your literature doesnt inform us as to which are USA and which are overseas made.
You would be amazed at how many people want a quality knife and it's ok if it is made in Taiwan. As long as it is backed by Buck.

peter78 · Aug 15, 2005

guy g said:
Buck has not been real up front about which are US and which are foreign.

I recently went to a knife store and saw a Buck Trio with wood grain handle. It was inclosed in a package. I read the package and could not see where it was made. Since the knife was in a sealed package I could not see the blade of the knife. Which I think most of us know this knife is made in China.

Is it wriiten any where on the package? By not clearly labelling the product, I feel they are not being "up front about which are US and which are foreign".

guy g · Aug 15, 2005

If it's a clam pack it should be on the UPC sticker.Sometimes a store will add their own UPC symbol over the original and it may cover the original.

allenC · Aug 16, 2005

"Made in the USA" does not always tell the whole story.

I had a Buck 303 that had "USA" on the tang, but on the box it said "assembled in Mexico".

So I guess Buck made the parts (liners, backspring, blades, bolsters, scales, pins) in the USA and then shipped them to Mexico for assembly.

But another aspect to consider is where does all those individual parts come from?
Are the plastic scales made in the USA or China?
And if the scales are made in the USA, where do the raw plastic pellets come from?
Where does the unworked steel come from?
And the pins?

There are'nt many knives made 100%, from raw materials-to-finished-product, here in the USA.

Allen.

110 Dave · Aug 16, 2005

There are'nt many knives made 100%, from raw materials-to-finished-product, here in the USA.

Allen.
Well Allen- yes there are!, but not all bucks are, not any more- only some of them
I am going to get in trouble again on the USA subject and likely end up on more ignore lists but Buck and other companies [the worse is Hardly Daveison] that made their reputation in the USA dont want it known how much is NOT made in USA to have it boldly displayed (and here I agree with Joe) would not make much difference to the every day buyer esp those under 25 and even to me after thinking on it
What many of us older buyers have issue with is not being able to see it and being SURPRISED by it...jest as Joe says we Ass-u-me buck = usapi$$ed me off when I bought a new styled buck knife and it had china on it ! Sold it I did but
now I have been given a china buck and it is a damm good knife! And cheep enough I wont cry if it walks as many bucks dothis is the market that Buck is after now, the cheepes..
But on the USA issue I feel Buck is not following the intent of the law concerning the use of USA stamped on its products and made in USA laws.
Sheaths are assembled in Mexico, as are other things and none should have USA alone permanently on them and packaging that has any thing made or assembled else ware in it can not have made in USA or USA alone on it.
Buck made Idaho outline the year mark but it could not be used on elseware made knives so the orgional mark is used on them - full complance there but not on the one type of steel they use. Idaho outline like USA can not be used on any foren sorced steel and they are doing both which i feel sad about... again use search and USA fro more info...
on the Steel used by Buck in some of its blades has USA stamped on it yet it is boldly stamped with a Japanese owned steel trademark!

{from one of the many knife steel websites: "ATS-34 - A high-carbon, high-alloy, stainless steel, a Japanese copy of 154-CM, preferred ATS-34 is a trade name of the Mxxxxxxx.co" }

Now as I read the law no foren sourced raw material that composes a major component of a product [and i think the blade of a knife IS the major part] can be stamped USA and certainly if there is a foren owned trade mark on it how can it be eligible to have USA stamped on it certainly makes no sense to me now it dont have to be stamped Japan or Twain or any thing but it cant be stamped USA is how I see it.
NOTE it is only the ats steel that i know of that buck imports and not all steel they use...

Clydetz · Aug 18, 2005

I've been a Buck 'collector' and 'user' for a few years and enjoy the high quality of their knives, both U.S.A. or overseas models. While I feel good about seeing U.S.A. stamped on the blade, I don't necessarily believe all parts of a knife are entirely 'made' in the U.S.A.! I own other brands of knives made in Taiwan, Italy, Spain, etc. and as long as the knife functions well, I have no complaints where they were made. But seeing 'Made in the U.S.A.' on a knife will always make me 'feel' a bit better about a product!
Seeing 'Made in the U.S.A.' on the packaging means nothing to me. Who really cares if the packaging was made or 'printed' in the U.S.A.?

libbyhuck · Aug 19, 2005

When I see a particular knife I am interested in, I will check the manufacturer's website or a major Internet knife retailer and see if the knife is touted as USA made or not. If it is not readily disclosed as USA-made I am then inclined to believe it is imported and I do not purchase it...Remington is fairly upfront on their website disclosing USA-made as a further inducement to purchase a particular knife...and if it is not touted as USA-made, then I can correctly deduce it is an import. Knife manufacturer's are well aware most avid knife people are interested in country of origin and are going to push their ability to generate a few extra sales through selective withholding of the facts as long as consumers will let them. I do see the trend towards USA loyalty increasing and makers will follow the path of least resistance and therefore increased sales. I wisely choose to employ my countrymen and not distant, predatory, and self-involved Communist regimes....namely, China...I am not as critical of Taiwan as they can be trusted....

110 Dave · Aug 19, 2005

Well, really I guess that packaging should not mater, as it is the main component the knife that is the issue...
And as far as the sheath, it is an accessory they only sew it in Mexico were they are still set up to sew leather, and I relay dont mind assembled in Mexico I mean it is not like using Rich Corinthian or Moroccan Leather and then saying it is made in the USA Humm, I wander if Buck has considered using that, I could go for it.

In reality it is now only the issue of the ATS-34 (Japan) steel that truly gives me any gripe, and I should not get upset over other things that are not directly related

But as that ATS-34 is imported, even as blank sheets, I feel it should NOT have USA on it at all no mater how much work is done to the blade in the U.S. .
Now if the company that owns the trade mark were to have a US company make it, IE: from mixing liquid iron to ingot to rolled sheet steel well then I guess it is ok to have the trade mark of ats-34 and USA on it.
But still, it is a COPY of CM-154, which is a US made and trade marked steel, so why would anyone go to the extreme of making the other here?
Now I dont know which they are but there are also Canadian made steels that have great reputation as blade material and it is a ditto that the same applies to them
After all Buck knives only put USA on their knives in 68 so as to be able to sell directly in another country to start with.

sph3ric pyramid · Aug 19, 2005

IIRC, 154CM produced in the States declined in quality after demand for it decreased for a period of time, during which Hitachi began producing ATS-34 which while very similar, is not exactly the same (additionally, it's never been produced in the States). It was known to be quite pure and a very good steel, and a lot of knives were made with it until more recently with the 'reintroduction' of 154CM. It seems that most manufacturers are switching over to the domestically produced steel, but I assume that many have a bunch of ATS-34 stock they haven't used up yet.

Personally, given a choice, I go with the knife that's higher quality. Often it'll be the U.S.-produced knife, but many times it'll be a Japan/Taiwan/European product. I do agree that Buck should make the consumer aware of the facts, but I also think it's the responsibility of the truly selective consumer to look/research before buying.

guy g · Aug 19, 2005

Allenc, There was a period of time where the 300 series and the Bucktools were assembled in Mexico. The parts were driven down and finished products were returned to El Cajon for whatever final prep for sales. The boxes were all marked as such and being so close to the factory ,QC was easy. I,ve got 303's from most of the sources and there is very little difference in them except the China made ones dont hold quite the edge of a USA or assembled in Mexico does.

110 Dave · Aug 20, 2005

sph3ric pyramid said:
IIRC, 154CM produced in the States declined in quality after demand for it decreased for a period of time, during which Hitachi began producing ATS-34 which while very similar, is not exactly the same (additionally, it's never been produced in the States). It was known to be quite pure and a very good steel, and a lot of knives were made with it until more recently with the 'reintroduction' of 154CM. It seems that most manufacturers are switching over to the domestically produced steel, but I assume that many have a bunch of ATS-34 stock they haven't used up yet.

Personally, given a choice, I go with the knife that's higher quality. Often it'll be the U.S.-produced knife, but many times it'll be a Japan/Taiwan/European product. I do agree that Buck should make the consumer aware of the facts, but I also think it's the responsibility of the truly selective consumer to look/research before buying.

yes i agree some what and it is not the quality- as i state the china buck i have is a GOOD Buck Quality knife that is inexpensive while not being a 'cheasy cheep' knife!!
i also now go for quality /price like everyone else and i have no intention of knocking Japan made knives as i have recived email concening... i have also been informed that
indeed there was a drop in puritly and thus quality of 154cm and a lack of production which lead to Hxxxx Co. producing the ats34 (still a copy there is less then 0.1% diffrence in mix!) and i most assurely did not imply that it was made here - that was an exceroise of thought in how could you have a non usa trade mark with USA stamped on it -
by law you cant... it is a contradiction and confuseing to the cosumer acording to law concerning such use so even the savy should not have to resurch it!! and again i am refering to fed law concerning the use of USA an any product!(do a google on 'USA use law' and you to can find it)
again my only rant is that there is USA on a steel trademarked stamped from overseas .... not in the quality of buck knives!!! it is still tops right up there! and thoese that make knives for Buck oversea's are damm prowed of it!
see 'my first china buck' thread in which i review the knife instead of trashing it. Buck quality, jest sad that the way busness is these days that it has to be for the co. to make it and we can thank wally world for that... sam walton and Al likey turning over in graves or laffing one....
and again i am not trashing knives made in Japan!!! i have every respect for the skilled knife makers there as i do the knifesmiths here!

Lost Jaguar · Aug 21, 2005

It does seem strange to me that a company run by such devout Christians would trade with a country so hostile to religion as China.

110 Dave · Aug 21, 2005

Lost Jaguar said:
It does seem strange to me that a company run by such devout Christians would trade with a country so hostile to religion as China.

Howdy Jaguar,
Well, ah-hmm, I respectfully beg license to disagree with you and come to the Buck familys defense. I am willing to bet the Buck family does NOT run Buck Knives by themselves. I bet there are other investors and other members on the board that may or may not share the Buck familys beliefs. I do believe they try to conduct business in a way that is in line with their beliefs and i am glad they do weather i agree with all they do or not.
I dont believe that China is as hostile as it once was. And I have heard of some of the past harsh dealings with the missionaries by the China govt. I feel they have now placed limits on the missionaries they allow in and what they are allowed to do. Based on what I have heard is happening, many are verry pushy and doing things they are not allowed to do and when caught they are charged and most are let go home rather then go to jail.
Additionally though I dont like the govt of china and I dont like trading with them I feel that there is nothing wrong with it. My feeling are based on my information, yours on your information and belief structure.

Really now, after all it is the communists country since we did not go to war and support the govt. that went/escaped to Twain

Additionally I feel that if we trade with them they will not only will learn our business ways but will also learn other things from the Americans that are there to run the inspection and educate the workers in how to skills. One cannot work with someone and not learn of his or her ways and beliefs and in watching them live the example of their beliefs.
Nuff said?or feel free to rsvp and we can goto the political postings!...
i love debate! {being the troll i am! }
Yours david meier, usn ret