MagnaCut - is the scarcity justified or just marketing?

Thanks, I was really more interested in how a popular new steel gets rolled out and how the foundaries and big name companies market it and what they base their decisions on how much of it to produce than anything else. I would try it out, but I don't need a new knife, especially a new fixed blade. It just seemed like thew right time to ask because I don't think we get something as anticipated as MagnaCut that often.
My personal feelings are more in line with Doc above.
 
Covid had a big impact on manufacturing, and drove up the price on everything from gasoline and shipping to knives. Bad timing for this new steel that we all want to try. I would guess the biggest knife companies like Spyderco, Benchmade and ZT will start using it more in 2022. And I can’t wait to try it! :)
 
AKS has a few sizes of bar stock available right now. I picked up some a few weeks ago and have my first blade with it out for heat treat. Could be worse.
 
I work for a large north american steel mill, let me tell you, supply chain has been great for our stock price :)

too bad we don't make any cpm or pm batches ;p
 
Crucible and NSM are in the business of selling steel, as much as they can. It's how they make money and are successful.
Why on earth would they deliberately limit supply of something that has such high demand. There is no Machiavellian plan going on here.
MagnaCut is proving to be a game changer and so demand is high........it's basic market forces.
 
I think another factor is some makers and companies have bought large quantities of MagnaCut for projects that are in the works. I would guess Spyderco has, I know Demko has, Survive! Knives has. And so, while a lot has been purchased, it will take some time to see the end products.
 
Keep in mind that Larrin basically cold-called Crucible and basically had to prove his bona fide expertise in a meeting that it seems they kind of accepted halfway out of curiosity about who this weirdo who wanted them to make him a custom metallurgy steel run was. That he got them to agree to do a steel pour for him was really a testament to his knowledge and no small amount of charm, but because it was a new product that they made as a solicited experiment, the first batches were undoubtedly smaller until Crucible could get a grasp on what sort of demand there would actually end up being for it.
 
A lot of good info in this thread, Understanding how the mills work, especially their workflow is almost scary. I can't believe that we seem to be (as a country) so limited in current production capability. It makes sense though when I think about cities like Detroit. And I am guessing that these specialty mills must have to invest in w hole lot of new technology from the furnace on up.
If we were to go back 50 years or so, would we be able to ramp up production a lot faster if all the prototypes and finished product proved as capable as MagnaCut?
Pretty shocking (though maybe it shouldn't be) that we have lost so much production capability and agility in making steel.
 
ElementalBreakdown said:
A lot of good info in this thread, Understanding how the mills work, especially their workflow is almost scary. I can't believe that we seem to be (as a country) so limited in current production capability. It makes sense though when I think about cities like Detroit. And I am guessing that these specialty mills must have to invest in w hole lot of new technology from the furnace on up.
If we were to go back 50 years or so, would we be able to ramp up production a lot faster if all the prototypes and finished product proved as capable as MagnaCut?
Pretty shocking (though maybe it shouldn't be) that we have lost so much production capability and agility in making steel
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If MagnaCut was needed to build tanks/planes for WW3 you can bet it would get made a lot quicker. Those of us on the forums who even know the difference between 8cr and MagnaCut probably only represent 1% of the population 😜
 
That's what I am considering, the boutique mills vs. largest scale mills, whether all the mills would get kinda conscripted into a war effort or what, but that's a way different though no less interesting conversation
 
From the time that I heard about H1 being considered for knives (and an already existing steel) to when I could buy one was I think 2-3 years. The time from LC200n to production was 18mo to 2 years. Though these are guesses, someone could check. And even then they were a few designs, took a while to produce, even though the market was somewhat established as far as how big demand might be. So in the current situation, it seems to me like I heard about a steel and it suddenly in a lot of places and a lot of designs very fast. Where I'm at we are waiting for a production run of a sensor that at last estimate was four months away, with another two months to delivery. Not a niche product, it's something at a lot of automated factories and warehouses use, so supply crunches are nothing new. Covid added just another few layers to some industries, but at the end of the day, all the delays collect at chokepoints, even if they don't seem like they should.
 
ElementalBreakdown said:
I can't imagine that Larrin would purposely create "unobtanium", and hoping that someone who knows how steel production works will explain if there's a reason for the scarcity beyond greed.
Spyderco made 2000 Mule Team pieces which is the largest to date, so they understood the demand.
Why would they not make enough... even if they did a few separate runs with slightly different features for comparison purposes? They could have sold at least 10× as many and sold them all in a day.
And we are talking a fixed blade here which has zero bearing on how many subsequent flippers/folders they would sell in their lineup.

I'm disgusted by the artificial scarcity tactics that seem to be the go-to marketing ploy we just accept now with pretty much everything from Christmas trees to electronics.

It just encourages scalping on the secondary market. I have no idea how that benefits manufacturers. Obviously I am missing something because this is nothing new.
Can anyone explain why this tired old tactic is so universally abused?

Is it as simple as fueling demand later? It just doesn't make sense to me and seems completely dishonest and greedy.

Larrin, it seems like you could have made millions by patenting it and selling/licensing it exclusively through your own company. I make no pretense about understanding all this, but the raw materials and manufacturing seems relatively simple. Just on initial demand it seems like you could have built an entire small foundry around it.

And with your reputation I would guess that lots of people would purchase other steels from you too knowing that you have the expertise to get the most out of ANY steel.

Is it as simple as just generating buzz to sell more down the road or something else?
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Scientific progress in blade steel has been measured in decades ever since the industrial revolution, and centuries for any advancements prior.

CPM S60V was invented in the 1980's, it took 20 years before we had a factory blade made out of it.
It's been nine months since MagnaCut was announced.
 
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Mules go for $75, they're hardly a big moneygrab for Spyderco. They're there to get the steel in the hands of knife nerds and get some real world feedback from people who care about knives.
 
The only "businesses" that I know of that can limit the supply of their "product" in order to manipulate and control the pricing of that product are OPEC (oil) and DeBeers (diamonds). I seriously doubt that any blade steel or knife maker can control the pricing of their products in the same manner.
 
It seems to me that fewer and fewer people in this world actually have a realistic idea of what goes into manufacturing, packaging, and delivering goods. It's sad.

Grizz
 
Hurrul said:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/spyderco-2021-lists-delivered-upcoming.1767874/post-20873752 - Spyderco made more in this run of mules, than in any past run. I doubt they were trying to limit the production, to drive demand. But, they have other scheduled obligations and limits on what they can put out.

The mule team series has been hit or miss for Spyderco - some steels sell out fast, some don't.

I'd say Spyderco elevated there risk by making more of this run, and it worked out as they sold them all, but in the past it has not always worked so well.
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They have to take a guess as to how many to manufacture. I wouldn't want to be the person doing the guessing, and possibly get stuck with a lot of inventory that doesn't sell. With that many produced and on the market, and likely a lot of them going to scammers, maybe there isn't that much demand after all among enthusiasts and after sitting on them for awhile the scammers will drop their prices so they don't get stuck holding the bag.

As for hit or miss- it seems to depend on the steel. If a steel is hyped as very good in one or another characteristic, it will likely sell well. If someone on a forum asks what a steel is like and someone answers "similar to D2"... then that will kill it. I watched this happen with a couple of the MT models.
 
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