MAGPUL's new knives.

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SharpBits said:
Not sure why I'm selected as the apologist for Magpul, but here goes, I guess. What Magpul actually said "Now, we're bringing MIM capabilities to a space where others have not perfected it: knives."* I don't care enough to know if others have overstated any claims. Seems that they believe they have perfected what others (Kai) have done before. On their webpage they make no claims at being first in this space with MIM. Their steel might be a first, but I'll leave that for you to sleuth out since you have contacts in the business.

View attachment 2773712

Clipped from a larger picture on their webpage.* That complex blade design (that u-shape, not the pin) is not going to be affordable using CNC due the extreme waste of material it would require. It is not even possible with simple stock removal methods. So, from their point of view, manufacturing of complex designs will be far less expensive. However, I believe the new knife should have been priced lower than the Bugout.

I'm still in the wait and see mode. I'm neither going to knee-jerk "hate the new thing" nor am I going to be first in line for one.


*https://magpul.com/metal-injection-molding
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I don't think you're an apologist for anybody.

We were all just having a discussion here.

Thank you for sharing.
 
SharpBits said:
Not sure why I'm selected as the apologist for Magpul, but here goes, I guess. What Magpul actually said "Now, we're bringing MIM capabilities to a space where others have not perfected it: knives."* I don't care enough to know if others have overstated any claims. Seems that they believe they have perfected what others (Kai) have done before. On their webpage they make no claims at being first in this space with MIM. Their steel might be a first, but I'll leave that for you to sleuth out since you have contacts in the business.

View attachment 2773712

Clipped from a larger picture on their webpage.* That complex blade design (that u-shape, not the pin) is not going to be affordable using CNC due the extreme waste of material it would require. It is not even possible with simple stock removal methods. So, from their point of view, manufacturing of complex designs will be far less expensive. However, I believe the new knife should have been priced lower than the Bugout.

I'm still in the wait and see mode. I'm neither going to knee-jerk "hate the new thing" nor am I going to be first in line for one.


*https://magpul.com/metal-injection-molding
Click to expand...

Civivi put the stop pin in the blade(at least the Brazen model). Makes the liner the stop pin wear point vs harden blade on a hardened pin. Also look at how much material Magpul removed around the pivot. Knife at this price point should be a lifetime item.
 
Check their website, talk about "perfecting" knife making and recurring use of the words forged and forging 😂 marketing BS alarm bells ringing!

I've got no experience with a sintered knife blade but I've been working hands on with metals for more than twenty years and making knives for the last six, from my experience sintered materials have either been brittle or porous. Tungsten carbide metal cutting tools are sintered but require being held very rigidly to prevent them shattering. Will be very interesting to see how the blades hold up.

I'm also pretty sure it was somewhere on here I read a comment by a famous knife maker that went along the lines of, gun companies make guns not knives, and they should stick to it.

As for the lock, looks like their trying to reinvent the wheel. Plenty of well proven, cheaper to make designs to choose from.

Probably a better idea to use MIM for any other part that's not the blade, pivot or stop pin.
 
Snacktime said:
Civivi put the stop pin in the blade(at least the Brazen model). Makes the liner the stop pin wear point vs harden blade on a hardened pin. Also look at how much material Magpul removed around the pivot. Knife at this price point should be a lifetime item.
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The Civivi method requires a separate part, the pin, and at least one more machining step of drilling the precise hole for the pin. Each adds time and cost.
Magpul didn’t remove any material around the pivot, the blade is made essentially complete like molding a plastic part except in metal. Complex shapes can be made all at once with little to no machining. It’s literally the entire point of MIM from what I can tell.

Magpul implies they have made advancements in MIM, so I guess we’ll all find out if that is true or not, very soon.
 
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So is it proven fact or just internet rumor that MIM parts are more easily broken? I've been hearing MIM parts are weaker for at least the last fifteen years; specifically in regards to Kimber-made guns and their supposedly declining quality. However, hasn't Ruger been using MIM technology for decades? Yet Rugers are touted for their strength and toughness. What gives?
 
riversidedep said:
So is it proven fact or just internet rumor that MIM parts are more easily broken? I've been hearing MIM parts are weaker for at least the last fifteen years; specifically in regards to Kimber-made guns and their supposedly declining quality. However, hasn't Ruger been using MIM technology for decades? Yet Rugers are touted for their strength and toughness. What gives?
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They ARE weaker than forged parts. Objectively. No one that's being intellectually honest will argue that point.


The question is, is a MIM part strong ENOUGH in a given role vs. a forged part to justify using the cheaper manufacturing method at the cost of some of the overall strength of the part. In many cases the answer is yes.
 
riversidedep said:
So is it proven fact or just internet rumor that MIM parts are more easily broken? I've been hearing MIM parts are weaker for at least the last fifteen years; specifically in regards to Kimber-made guns and their supposedly declining quality. However, hasn't Ruger been using MIM technology for decades? Yet Rugers are touted for their strength and toughness. What gives?
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Mim is fine if it isn't a heavily stressed part and can be made with enough material to be strong enough for the application. It looks like its just a new twist on injection molding.
 
These are obviously marketed to "gun bros" and some knife guys will bite. I have great doubts about their data based on the language they use and misuse. The lock parts seem similar to the CRKT deadbolt lock with a different locking mechanism. The fact they mention a crossbar lock as costly seems both silly and patently untrue, currently you can get a $6 knife with a well functioning crossbar lock coupled with a garbage blade. The blade HQ involvement seems forced and the comments about the impossibility of making compound grinds without being hand ground by a master are both silly and insulting. Perhaps they are actually unaware CNC manufacturing some how.
 
Sig had an overseas manufacturer make MIM firing pins that had a high failure rate. Funny thing was the aftermarket company that sold high priced forged pins for the same gun that also failed.
 
It took a couple of generations of firearms to surpass bows for accuracy and range. This is the first or second attempt at MIM blades. However bad or good they are, they likely will get better.
 
me2 said:
It took a couple of generations of firearms to surpass bows for accuracy and range. This is the first or second attempt at MIM blades. However bad or good they are, they likely will get better.
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I’m not sure that this analogy works. You compared 2 wildly different items, both of which are still commonly used to an incremental and currently failure prone change in the mass production of a single type of item.



I do have a question for experts on mim. How does it differ from Bill Rugers molding of revolver frames and golf club heads?
 
I think part of the problem/confusion with MIM conversations is typically the context. People talk about MIM like it is a singular thing with a singular result. MIM means nothing more than metal injection molding. It can be done with any number of alloys and any number of post-processing methods. Kimber's MIM and Ruger's MIM and Sig's MIM and Magpul's MIM and SpaceX's MIM are all almost certainly different in some way or another.

At the end of the day what this new Magpul knife will stand up to is TBD. People break knife blades all the time and the conversation is never about how forged/ground/machined blades are weak. Sometimes things break, and this will be no different. Someone will break one, probably shortly after receiving it, and the community will have to decide whether it was because of abuse/misuse or because the material can't do the things that traditional knife materials can. This Magpul knife will almost certainly have to stand up to plenty of abuse and destructive testing before people are ready to accept that MIM makes sense for a knife blade and that they have dialed in their process to make a good product, but right now no one knows.
 
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