Main stream disaster preparedness vs. Wilderness survival folk?

[psy-ops]

Is there a difference between Mainstream disaster preparedness people (MDPP) and wilderness survival folk (WSF)? I know it is a provocative heading but I needed to keep it short. I am not trying to start an Us vs Them thread. However; It does seem that there are some differences between what the mayo clininc and fema might suggest and some of the thoughts commonly espoused on these type of forums. Clearly, there is good advice out there and definitely some cross over.

MDPP often suggest prepackaged goods and waiting, where as WSF are all about making as much as possible and getting their heads around functional fixedness. FF is a term from cognitive psych which is the inability to use objects for things that they are not typically used for.

Any thoughts?

Chris

 

[pict]

Disaster preparedness and wilderness survival are two distinct skill sets just as Wilderness survival and bushcraft can be viewed seperately. Of course there is an overlap in all three.

Disaster Prep - Local living conditions are destroyed or degraded due to forces beyond your control. You have to create living conditions with what is left or move yourself and family to an unaffected area.

Wilderness Survival - You are suddenly dealing with the prospect of creating survivable conditions in the wilderness using the resources you have available and the techniques you have learned and practiced.

Bushcraft - Making the things needed to create living conditions in the bush out of locally available natural resources and available tools.

This is the way I see these three and they are complimentary skills. Bushcraft in its purest sense does not start with something going wrong, though the skills learned could be of great help if something did.

Survivalism is another category that usually includes a far wider reaching collapse of society whereas wilderness survival is focused on dealing with a wilderness emergency while normal society is happily going about its business and can be returned to at the end of the ordeal.

I don't see these things as tribal distinctions as I practice all of them at some point and see value in it all. The advice you get from these different orientations does reflect a certain mindset at times. The common denominator is self-reliance in whatever circumstances you happen to find yourself in. I believe in that very much. Mac

 

[psy-ops]

Pict, Excellent comments. That really helps break things down.



Thanks

 

[texastonydobbs]

Disaster preparedness and wilderness survival are two distinct skill sets just as Wilderness survival and bushcraft can be viewed seperately. Of course there is an overlap in all three.

Disaster Prep - Local living conditions are destroyed or degraded due to forces beyond your control. You have to create living conditions with what is left or move yourself and family to an unaffected area.

Wilderness Survival - You are suddenly dealing with the prospect of creating survivable conditions in the wilderness using the resources you have available and the techniques you have learned and practiced.

Bushcraft - Making the things needed to create living conditions in the bush out of locally available natural resources and available tools.

This is the way I see these three and they are complimentary skills. Bushcraft in its purest sense does not start with something going wrong, though the skills learned could be of great help if something did.

Survivalism is another category that usually includes a far wider reaching collapse of society whereas wilderness survival is focused on dealing with a wilderness emergency while normal society is happily going about its business and can be returned to at the end of the orderal.

I don't see these things as tribal distinctions as I practice all of them at some point and see value in it all. The advice you get from these different orientations does reflect a certain mindset at times. The common denominator is self-reliance in whatever circumstances you happen to find yourself in. I believe in that very much. Mac

Great job !

 

[Pritch]

Nicely done, Pict! I was processing how to articulate this as a continuum but got distracted by thoughts of one end being "lightweight" and the other "hardcore." I think your breakdown demonstrates the distinctions without imposing superiority. Thanks.

-- FLIX

 

[longbow50]

Yup, I agree. Great job pict!

 

[iamsmiling]

Excellent job, Pict!

 

[2dogs]

+1 for Pict's post. My view on "survival' is broken down as follows.

1 Water
2 Shelter
3 Fire
4 Food
5 Health
6 Security

For me these hold true whether urban or rural. These are just the basics of course but they are what I build on. Taking it from there I think of the pyramid:

Base-The will to survive
Middle- Knowledge and skills
Top- Kit

 

[longbow50]

Yup, without that survival instinct, why bother preparing. I think that the lack of the will to survive is the problem with most people. Well, that and denial. They'll replace denial with disbelief and for a brief time will experience the survival instinct, just after something happens that they know is going to kill them. They'll run like heck, but won't know which way and if they happen to luck out and actually survive the event, they won't have any means to live past a few days.

No matter what they/we choose to categorize ourselves and no matter what the motivating factors are, it all boils down to the fact that we have the insight to try to secure ours and our families futures in the most basic of ways, by providing the basic needs (shelter, food, water, medical and security) that are the very basics of life itself and because of that, they are usually the first things to go in an emergency.

 

[pict]

Thanks for the positive feedback. This is a good thread idea. I think alot of the controversy that we see here sometimes comes from a confusion of the terms we use to describe what we do. If you say you're into "survival" that could conjure up images of everything from the FEMA type preparation for Katrina-like events, getting lost in the mountains, primitive skills reenactments, or building a bunker. OK, so what knife do I need?

Here in Brazil we don't have too many natural disasters where I live, just 4 million Brazilians surrounding us, a natural disaster in their own right. We have spent a full month with no water and once went two weeks with no electricity, but that was local and just because the systems failed. If you could take the family on a weeklong camping trip you're way ahead of the game. The next step is a well stocked pantry.

I'm more oriented towards the wilderness emergency aspect of survival. I love spending time in the bush. Out there you're on your own and I think it develops a well rounded skill set to deal with all the different eventualites.

I take great pleasure in developing bushcraft and primitive skills but I view it as more of a hobby and a way to connect with the environment. Yes, these things could come in handy if hard pressed but IMO they don't substitute for planning and preparation (Read that "gear").

As for survivalism, I'll admit I used to be into it alot more than I am today. Part of that was our move to Brazil. In a way I'm living in a sociological disaster here. This society is far more broken than anything I ever experiened in the US. I still have all my stuff packed away up there in good, likeminded hands. Of the different groups I have only met wackos in this category, people who would want to see something cataclysmic happen so they could live out some twisted fantasy life ("survival wheelbarrow"). They aren't the majority by any means, but people like that are the reason I own the stuff I do. I figure I've got things covered in this department but I don't loose sleep over it.

I'd like to hear what others have to say to refine these categories. Mac

 

[Thomas Linton]

I think the mental approach is very close. For sake of discussion:

1) You are in the wilderness in the Fall. Unexpectedly, it begins to snow heavily. That is,

[l]ocal living conditions are destroyed or degraded due to forces beyond your control. You have to create living conditions with what is [available] ... or move yourself and [your group] . . . to an unaffected area.

2) You are in suburban Mississippi. A storm destroys your home and local infrastructure. So

- You are suddenly dealing with the prospect of creating survivable conditions in the (newly created) "wilderness" using the resources you have available and the techniques you have learned and practiced.

I certainly agree that "bushcraft," at least as defined in the European fora, lacks the element of suddent, unexpected crisis:

Bushcraft - Making the things needed to create living conditions in the bush out of locally available natural resources and available tools. ... Bushcraft in its purest sense does not start with something going wrong, though the skills learned could be of great help if something did.

And I note your observation that

I don't see these things as tribal distinctions as I practice all of them at some point and see value in it all. The advice you get from these different orientations does reflect a certain mindset at times. The common denominator is self-reliance in whatever circumstances you happen to find yourself in. I believe in that very much. Mac

 

[Shotgun]

One of the main differences I see is that a lot of those survivalism forums will have every 10th thread on "quiet" generators. Now with the one caveat of being able to pump water from a well, which I don't have, I actually PREFER when the power goes out. Crazy but electricity is the last thing I prepare for. There's a mind set there I think. Of course I'd miss all you guys.

 

[2dogs]

If the community lost power for 2 or 3 days I could manage OK. Beyond that it would be a lot tougher. By then I would be low on diesel and would have to walk about 5 miles round trip to check on the cattle. School will be closed so the time missed will be added on at the beginning of summer vacation. My wife may have to stay at her work for the duration of the disaster. They have drinking water and diesel fuel for the generator but no food. All of that would replenished through OES via the NG.

We have 2 generators at home but fuel is limited. I have been through a few small disasters, the snows of 1974, floods in 82 and 83, the fire in Pebble Beach in 1987, the 1989 e-quake. I can tell you that people cooperate pretty well for about 5 days and then anger surfaces. If the power is out for any longer time then civil disobediance can be the bigger problem.













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