Maine Photos - Warning: Pic heavy

[akennedy73]

I went camping in the northeast corner of Baxter State Park - Maine is such a beautiful place! Here's some pics:

Howe Falls:

Overlooking Five Ponds area:

Valiantco Golok vs CS Trailhawk after two dozen chops:

Another round of Valiantco Golok vs CS Trailhawk after two dozen chops:

They both weigh in at approx. 22 oz - but the Valiantco chops much better:

Vaughan mini-hatchet and BRKT Fieldsman:

Trout Brook:

Matagamon Lake:

Lots of yummy cattails on Matagamon Lake:

 

[akennedy73]

Howe Falls again:

The field at the Trout Brook ranger station:

I'm always happy in a canoe

Overlooking Matagamon Lake:

Kershaw Junkyard dog, BRKT Fieldsman, and CS Trailhawk:

So if you made it this far down the post, I've got a question. I bought a fishing license (for both myself and my wife) but didn't go fishing the entire week. After buying the license I discovered that eating freshwater fish in Maine isn't recommended for women of childbearing age (my wife's 3 months pregnant ) because Maine has some of the highest mercury levels in North America. I fish because I love to eat fish and I didn't want to leave my wife out of a meal of fresh caught trout. And honestly I didn't know how much I'd enjoy eating fish that I knew wasn't safe for my wife to eat. So I didn't fish.

After returning I did a little research:

In recent U.S. EPA tests of fish caught in Maine's lakes, every fish sample tested was contaminated with mercury and 89 percent contained mercury levels that exceed EPA's "safe" limit for women of childbearing age.

The state of Maine warns that "pregnant and nursing women, women who may get pregnant, and children under age 8 SHOULD NOT EAT any freshwater fish from Maine's inland waters. Except, for brook trout and landlocked salmon, 1 meal per month is safe."

"All other adults and children older than 8 CAN EAT 2 freshwater fish meals per month. For brook trout and landlocked salmon, the limit is 1 meal per week," according to the state of Maine.



So my question is - Are mercury levels in fish a wilderness survival issue?

I think it is - if poachers were wiping out all the game, I'd say it's a wilderness survival issue because I expect to be able to hunt game if I need to in order to survive. So I'd say the poachers have got to be stopped before there's nothing left to hunt.

If coal-fired power plants are dusting the wilderness with mercury that's contaminating the fish, then it seems like it's a wilderness survival issue. I've got fish hooks and line in my PSK - and it's not for catching toxic fish that's going to effect the brains of me and my family. :barf:

Now if I'm starving to death, am I going to eat toxic fish? Of course. But would I give it to my pregnant wife or my young children? Yes, in small amounts on a very limited basis. But what if I'm forced to survive for months or years and fish are the most readily availabe source of protein for my family? The choice gets harder.

In ten, fifteen, twenty years who knows how toxic those fish will be. Catching fish may no longer be a very good wilderness survival option.

To me this isn't a political question and I hope any discussion doesn't turn it into one. Being able to go into the woods and eat just ain't political to me - it's simply life, the way life has been and way life should always be.

 

[g30ff]

Well, I'm no toxicologist so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I suspect that in any "real" survival situation whether it's getting lost in the woods or nuclear armageddon you are likely to die of something else long before mercury levels have the chance to build up in your system and cause you serious problems.

Don't forget that other food sources have their problems too: Many wild plants, even ones not generally considered poisonous, contain natural toxins that can affect a vulnerable foetus or child. And mammals and birds can have parasites that pose a risk even in handling the uncooked tissues.

In a survival situation you probably won't have any truly good options, but I think you could do much worse than eating fish. There is at least one wildlife toxicologist here on the forums so perhaps he will weigh in on the question eventually.

Nice photos by the way, it looks like a beautiful area. Gotta get me one of them goloks.

 

[bladefan]

beautiful pictures!! I always wondered how untouched, unpolluted areas could have fish that have high levels of mercury in them!!

 

[akennedy73]

Well, I just found a handy mercury calculator on the web. I'm 150 lbs. and I'd like a breakfast of a single serving (8 oz) of bass, a single serving of perch for lunch and one serving of trout for supper for a week. I'd be pretty happy surviving on 3 fish a day but I'd also be eating 15.8 times more than what's considered safe:

Your Estimated Mercury Intake is Significantly Above the "Safety Zone"
Your mercury intake this week averaged 1.58 micrograms per kilogram per day (µg/kg/day). The maximum mercury intake that the Environmental Protection Agency considers to be safe is 0.1 micrograms per kilograms per day.

Your weight: 150 lbs
Estimated Mercury Intake (µg/kg/day)
7 Portions of Bass (Striped, Black) 0.80
7 Portions of Perch (Freshwater) 0.51
7 Portions of Trout (Freshwater) 0.26

Total 1.58

I guess I take the long view. You're right there's a lot of ways to die in the wilderness - but I still think survival should be feasible for months and years if needed. And I wonder what consuming nearly sixteen times the amount of mercury I should is going to do eventually. Maybe it wouldn't have much effect except on children.

 

[sasha]

Where the mercury is comming from??? Well unless i got no other choice i think i would pass on all the fish in main. If they tell you you should not eat it more then twice a month there is something wrong with it. Mercury is not going to kill you so fast but it would make you suffer long time before you die at the old age.

Sasha

 

[Myal]

beautiful pics

I have been thinking seriously about getting a valiant golock for a while , I think your pics have kinda tipped me toward doin just that .

 

[David E]

if poachers were wiping out all the game, it's a wilderness survival issue because I expect to hunt game in order to survive. The poachers have got to be stopped

Just how serious is this alleged poacher problem ?!?!?

.

 

[akennedy73]

Just how serious is this alleged poacher problem ?!?!?

.

maybe you're being sarcastic?

There is no poacher problem - I'm just reasoning by analogy. I wouldn't let poachers destroy my ability to hunt and feed myself in the woods. Why should I let big utility companies with coal-fired power plants make my fish toxic?

Where the mercury is comming from???
Sasha

Emissions from coal-fired power plants

I have been thinking seriously about getting a valiant golock for a while , I think your pics have kinda tipped me toward doin just that .

I know you won't regret it :thumbup:

 

[DOC-CANADA]

AK, thanks for the beautiful pictures.

Re: the mercury problem. There was an issue quite a few years ago in Northern Ontario about a whole reserve of First Nations People developing severe problems from mercury contamination. In their case it was coming from a pulp and paper operation. (for more information, google Grassy Narrows Reserve). The final solution was to move the whole reserve, IIRC.
They called it 'Minamata Disease' and it was named after a place in Japan that suffered similar problems. You can also Google this for more information.

It's a terrible thing we do to ourselves. I think Tom Brown Jr. says something like, " We kill our grandchildren to feed our children" or something like that, but it makes a good point. Unless we're prepared to make some big sacrifices in the way we live, this will only get worse. I don't mean this to start some kind of political wrangle, it's just that as I sit here at the computer, looking at your beautiful pictures, I am greatly saddened.

Doc

 

[g30ff]

I guess I take the long view. You're right there's a lot of ways to die in the wilderness - but I still think survival should be feasible for months and years if needed. And I wonder what consuming nearly sixteen times the amount of mercury I should is going to do eventually. Maybe it wouldn't have much effect except on children.

Keep in mind that our heavy metal exposure limits are pretty conservative. Western governments probably aren't that happy to accept levels that would amount to something as trivial (in a survival setting) as a 1% increase in the rate of birth defects.

Mercury accumulates in seafood as well, so you probably have people in Japan or coastal areas all over the third world getting much more than 16 times our safe limits. Relative to the other hazards of primitive living I think the risks are pretty inconsequential, but in a country like Japan where people are generally long-lived there might be a few more problems. At the levels found here I'm pretty sure problems would take years, if not decades, to really be seen.

That's not to say it isn't a very real problem for us. After all, we're likely to live long enough to see the effects of prolonged exposure. I like to fish so I'm with you 100% on wanting to see the situation improved. Fortunately, lack of skill and limited opportunities means mercury poisoning is a long way off as far as I'm concerned...

 

[runningboar]

This is a huge problem to me, this is taken directly from the NC fish and game regulation digest.

STATEWIDE
Albemarle Sound from Bull Bay to Harvey Point
west to the mouths of the Roanoke and Chowan
rivers (Perquimans, Chowan, Bertie,Washington
and Tyrrell counties)
Roanoke River from U.S. Hwy. 17 bridge
nearWilliamston to the mouth of Albemarle
Sound (Martin, Bertie andWashington counties)
Welch Creek (Martin, Beaufort andWashington
counties)
Brier Creek Reservoir (Wake County), Brier
Creek_downstream of Brier Creek Reservoir, and
Little Brier Creek and tributaries downstream of
Brier Creek Parkway
Lake Crabtree (Wake County)
Crabtree Creek (Wake County) above and
below Lake Crabtree to Neuse River
Women of childbearing age, pregnant women, nursing mothers and children
under age 15: no more than 2 meals per week of fish LOWin mercury and no
consumption of fish HIGH in mercury.
All other people: no more than 4 meals per week of fish LOWin mercury and
only 1 meal per week of fish HIGH in mercury.
(The names of fishes containing high and low levels of mercury are available
from N.C. Dept. Health and Human Services at (919) 707-5912 or
www.epi.state.nc.us/epi/fish/ safefish.html)
Carp and catfish. No consumption by women of childbearing
age or children. No more than one meal per month for others.
Carp and catfish. No consumption by women of childbearing
age or children. No more than one meal per month for others.
Carp and catfish. No consumption by women of childbearing
age or children. No more than one meal per month for others.
All fish. No consumption.
Carp and catfish. No consumption. No more than one meal per
month for all other fish.
Carp, catfish and largemouth bass. No more than one meal per month.
FISH CONSUMPTION ADVISORIES
Elevated levels of some pollutants may be found in certain fish caught by the public or sold commercially in the United States.
For more information, see www.epi.state.nc.us and click on “Fish Consumption Advisories.”
The following table lists the current fish consumption advisories for North Carolina inland fishing waters:
Mercury
Dioxins
Dioxins
Dioxins
PCBs
PCBs
PCBs
Body ofWater Advisory Pollutant

I think it is just like gobal dimming, right now not a big problem if we don't do something in 50 years it is liable to be a very big problem. I don't kill wild bass, but even if I wanted to all these fish are worthless, they are on the do not eat list. I think it is a shame that we know what the shit we put into the air is doing but we aren't doing anything about it. Chris

 

[runningboar]

Akennedy,
Sorry for getting sidetracked, great pics, I have only been to Maine once and what surprised me the most was how friendly the people are, I think it is a great state. But most importantly congratulations on the baby on the way. :thumbup::thumbup: Chris

 

[fedaykincmndr]

BEAUTIFUL! Great Pics!

 

[555]

Thanks for sharing some nice pictures of Maine.

 

[hollowdweller]

Mercury in fish is an interesting topic.

There was a great episode about it on NOW several years ago. Here's the transcript.


http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript326_full.html

What I thought was sort of tragic was the retired guy they interviewed that loved to fish, and eat fish, and he heard about mercury and had himself tested and his mercury blood levels tested 7 times the safe level that the EPA reccomends. He quit eating fish and his mercury level went down.

Can't help but crossing the line into politics here but rather than doing something about it since 2000 the Bush administration has not only relaxed the standards but also cut off any funding to determine the health effects.

That people would have trouble "surviving" and staying health on food gleaned from nature is a national disgrace.

I think Robert F Kennedy Jr put it best:

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR: Yeah, this is what's happened to urban waterways all over the country. And what part of our job is to continually remind people that you own this waterway. Every child in New York City, every child in Brooklyn, has a right to come down this waterway with a fishing pole, catch a striped bass, and bring it home and feed it to their family with pride. And with the security that they're not going to poison somebody. But that right has been stolen from the people of this area by industries who, you know, who use political clout to privatize the public trust.

When these coal plants put mercury into the air and that mercury lands on our waterways, and it makes it so we can't catch fish anymore and eat them. Or it poisons our women and children, those impacts impose costs on the rest of us. I don't even consider myself an environmentalist anymore. I'm a free marketeer. I go out into the market place and I catch the cheaters.

And what all the federal environmental laws were meant to do was to restore free market capitalism in this country. We're not protecting nature for the sake of the fishes or the birds. Or for nature's sake. We're protecting it because nature enriches us. When we destroy nature, we diminish ourselves. We impoverish our children.

And you know-- we're not protecting those ancient forests in the Pacific Northwest, as Rush Limbaugh loves to say, for the sake of a spotted owl. We're preserving them because we believe that trees have more value to humanity standing than they would have if we cut them down. You know, this administration and sometimes industry says that we have to choose between environmental protection on the one hand and economic prosperity on the other.

It's a false choice. In 100 % of the situations, good environmental policy is identical to good economic policy. Environmental injury is deficit spending. It's a way of loading the cost of our generation's prosperity onto the backs of our children. If we treat the planet as if it were a business in liquidation, convert our natural resources to cash as quickly as possible, have a few years of pollution-based prosperity, we can generate an instantaneous cash flow and the illusion of a prosperous economy. But our children are going to pay for our joy ride.

 

[bulgron]

Do a google search on "Bush scrubbers coal plants" and read and be amazed. As far as I can tell, there are coal-fired power plants all over this country that could be installing scrubbers so as to reduce CO2 and mercury emissions (among other things) but the power industry seems to fight installing those with every strength it possesses.

The problem is that all of this has gotten caught up in the Global Warming debate, as if GW is the only possible reason anyone would want coal power plants to stop spewing poison all over everything.

I've been arguing for years that this nation should switch over to solar, wind and nuclear power generation, but when I do people frequently leap to "global warming is a myth" arguments. But I don't need global warming in order to want to clean up power plants, and stop using them altogether if possible.

But there's a lot of pro-business types out there who just don't get this point. I guess they and their children are magically immune from the health consequences of living in a contaminated environment. Money solves everything, right?

Everything is politics, my friends, even here on the Wilderness forums. Sorry for issuing a post that should probably be in Political.

 

[akennedy73]

Akennedy,
Sorry for getting sidetracked, great pics, I have only been to Maine once and what surprised me the most was how friendly the people are, I think it is a great state. But most importantly congratulations on the baby on the way. :thumbup::thumbup: Chris

Thanks RB! And you're right about the people in Maine - they're really friendly and nice. I guess living in such a beautiful place is bound to make you that way after awhile.

I grew up on Kentucky Lake in Tennessee - fish frys are a big deal around there. Paris, TN is home of the "world's biggest catfish fry". Its common for people to have summertime gatherings at their homes and fry up hundreds of fish - I can remember a couple fish frys that I ate so much I got sick. I fished almost every day of every summer of my childhood. It was a regular ritual in the late afternoon to catch some grasshoppers, grab the cane poles and walk down to the lake to sit on the dock for a couple of hours and catch enough fish for supper.

I guess this whole mercury thing bothers me so much because I'm going to be a father soon and one thing I'm really looking forward to is teaching my child to hunt and fish. I want to say, "Welcome to planet Earth - this is your home! It's a really nice place to live because there's plenty of food here - you just have to respect and honor the gifts this world gives you and you'll always have something good to eat." But then I've got to explain that certain fish aren't ok to eat - and others you can only eat one or two a month. And why? Because those that came before didn't respect and honor the gifts we were given.

HD, I like that quote about "good environmental policy is identical to good economic policy". Reminds me of something I read once that goes something like - "Knowledge is knowing the difference between self-interest and morality. Wisdom is realizing they're the same thing."

 

[mtnfolk mike]

great pics and a nice looking knife selection....:thumbup:

 

[hollowdweller]

As far as I can tell, there are coal-fired power plants all over this country that could be installing scrubbers so as to reduce CO2 and mercury emissions (among other things) but the power industry seems to fight installing those with every strength it possesses.

Well said Bulgron! The technology exsists and surely should be considered just the cost of doing business.