How To Maintain kitchen knives: steel or strop

Dishwasher = water + high heat + caustic detergent = rust-making, glass-etching, edge-attacking trifecta.

If it were just the heat and the water, most stainless knives would probaby be OK. But the automatic dishwasher detergent is caustic enough to ETCH GLASS in that environment. It's why clear glassware doesn't stay clear for very long, in the dishwasher, and ends up being 'frosted' in short order. I wouldn't subject expensive knives to it, myself. Blades in even higher carbon content will also be more prone to rust in wet & hot conditions, aside from the caustic detergent itself.


David
 
Yes. Only by eye. And fingernail draws. Three-finger. Paper cuts.
 
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adamlau said:
Why no dishwasher, folks? Here is a recent and relevant thread on the topic: Dishwasher safe? Have any of you honestly noted edge or micarta/G10 degradation as a result of cycling a stainless knife through a dishwasher?

EDIT: I am going to run Shun Classic VG-10 at 10/15 + 400/6K (JIS) through ten straight dishwashing cycles. Impromptu, no controls, no thread, no scientific method and see if I can note any visible wear to the edge. It will take about a week as I plan to cycle this in with normal loads. Dishwasher is a Thermador DWHD440M less than two months old. Seventh Generation Free & Clear with Lemi Shine as a booster. What do you guys think will happen to the edge? Microchipping? Will the edge degrade so far as to develop a light reflective flat spot?

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Honestly as long as it is by itself in the rack it should be mostly OK. The utensils get knocked around in there...

It might become less sharp, I don't expect it to look like it was etched with ferric chloride. The pattern might become more pronounced:D.
 
My global knife set came with a rectangular slotted base about 3” high. The entire length of each blade, edge down, sits in its own plastic-lined, form fitting slot.

This protects the knife and edge beautifully. The drawbacks are its weight and size: it requires a large, very sturdy drawer or good portion of a countertop.
 
adamlau said:
EDIT: I am going to run Shun Classic VG-10 at 10/15 + 400/6K (JIS) through ten straight dishwashing cycles. Impromptu, no controls, no thread, no scientific method and see if I can note any visible wear to the edge. It will take about a week as I plan to cycle this in with normal loads. Dishwasher is a Thermador DWHD440M less than two months old. Seventh Generation Free & Clear with Lemi Shine as a booster. What do you guys think will happen to the edge? Microchipping? Will the edge degrade so far as to develop a light reflective flat spot?
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Following up on this, I actually ran the Shun through eighteen normal cycles. Bottom rack, fully exposed to the spray arm during every cycle. As far as I could tell, the edge was as sharp as it was before the first cycle. No flats along the edge. Though I would not take anything from this other than VG-10 run through the specified dishwasher using the specified detergents did not appear to degrade its 15 micro on a 10 edge. Could be that Seventh Generation Free & Clear and/or Lemi Shine are mild in comparison to other detergents.
 
Both, ceramic rods, leather strop with compound.
Gotta have both.
The steel rods, don't care for them. Unless all had were henckels and wustofs

Even then, I'd probably toss the steel
 
I've settled on a DMT Aligner clamp and Norton 6" coarse/fine bench stone, with a ceramic steel for torch up. I do the sharpening about once a month and use the ceramic in between. No point in trying to teach someone something they don't want to learn.

A good sharpening job with good control removes about 15 microns of blade width. Total cost of the knives (2 Santoku), Aligner, stone, and steel was about $45. Once the edges are rebeveled to match the Aligner angle, a full sharpening takes 20 passes per side or so. I wouldn't worry about wearing out the knife.
 
me2 said:
I've settled on a DMT Aligner clamp and Norton 6" coarse/fine bench stone, with a ceramic steel for torch up. I do the sharpening about once a month and use the ceramic in between. No point in trying to teach someone something they don't want to learn.

A good sharpening job with good control removes about 15 microns of blade width. Total cost of the knives (2 Santoku), Aligner, stone, and steel was about $45. Once the edges are rebeveled to match the Aligner angle, a full sharpening takes 20 passes per side or so. I wouldn't worry about wearing out the knife.
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Slightly orthogonal to the thread, but......how do you use that DMT aligner on your stone? Curious what you set the aligner on to get it at the right height relative to the stone so it doesn't change the angle.
 
The Aligner clamp will ride on the table top next to the bench stone. I put the stone on a little piece of non-slip cabinet liner and set the clamp for the lowest angle that doesn't hit the stone, about 12 dps for these knives. Narrower blades are steeper.
 
Approach I decided to try for my family members:
  • Profile the kitchen blades as close to 15 dps as I can get, freehanding. To get the angle right, I'll use the approach to creating an improvised angle guide discussed here: New to sharpening.
  • Give them 2 options and let them pick which one works best:
    • DMT ceramic steel (this is already what they use, just not very effectively) with an attached 15 degree angle guide. Understanding this will not be QUITE as precise as my calculated angle guide above, but probably close enough. Preferred approach because quick/convenient and with a light touch, should take less metal.
    • Or the 15 dps Sharpmaker medium gray rods for repair of typical edge dings.
 
adamlau said:
Following up on this, I actually ran the Shun through eighteen normal cycles. Bottom rack, fully exposed to the spray arm during every cycle. As far as I could tell, the edge was as sharp as it was before the first cycle. No flats along the edge. Though I would not take anything from this other than VG-10 run through the specified dishwasher using the specified detergents did not appear to degrade its 15 micro on a 10 edge. Could be that Seventh Generation Free & Clear and/or Lemi Shine are mild in comparison to other detergents.
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I believe the biggest problem with washing knives in dishwashers is the blade being tossed around and dinging into other things. The truth is that if a knife was put in the dishwasher in a way where it wouldn't be banging into things it would probably be fine. Does this mean a closed folder is dishwasher safe?

Idk about repeated exposure to caustic dishwasher detergents.
 
I pulled out my own aligner clamp, never had tried it with a stone. Clamped a folder in it. What I realized right away is that the DMT predefined notch/angle settings are basically useless to determine angle because the height of the stone surface, and the height of whatever you rest the aligner on, are going to vary. So in the end, seems like you just have to 'wing' the notch settings, adjust whatever gets you to the right angle for the height of the stone and the support surface. And you may also have to use a 'shim' under your aligner to get the right height, as the first of these 2 DMT videos demos.



me2 said:
The Aligner clamp will ride on the table top next to the bench stone. I put the stone on a little piece of non-slip cabinet liner and set the clamp for the lowest angle that doesn't hit the stone, about 12 dps for these knives. Narrower blades are steeper.
Click to expand...
 
Yes that can be a problem. I just get the angle as low as l can without the clamp hitting the stone. I typically don't use a shim. The stone is about 3/4" thick. I also use a scrubbing stroke on the coarse side, then change to alternating passes and raise the angle one notch on the fine side. Our can produce hair whittling edges off just the stone. Ceramic rod touch ups are just free hand.
 
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