Makers- Full Time? / Part Time?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
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I have often wondered how many "part time" custom knife makers contemplate going "full time"?

Wow! What a big step?

On one hand, it must be difficult to make knives at night and on weekends after working a full time job during the day. I don't know how guys like Lin Rhea (just one maker who comes to mind) do it so successfully.

Then on the other hand, it must be very stressful being a full time maker and having to make a living or depend totally on knife sales to support the family.

I imagine that the percentage of "full time" makers compared to "part time" is quite small.

At one time when I was very active in collecting classic cars, I considered turning it into a full time profession, but decided against after speaking to an individual who said he had loss all interest in a hobby he loved by turning it into a "business".


So have, or are, many of you "part time" makers considering going "full time" in the future?

Do any of you "full time" guys have any advise to share with "part timers" contemplating this decision?

What are your views and/or opinions on the part time / full time subject?

Collectors, does a maker being part time or full time make any difference as to whether you collect or place an order with him/her?

Thank you in advance, for your participation.
 
The company I work for seems to be going down the gurgler very slowly we used to have 150 people ,now we are down to just 16.
So that has got me thinking of opening my own workshop making custom motorcycle parts and the odd knife on the side but I take a while making bits and knives getting them just right so I worry that I may not be able to make it pay, only five years untill I retire so thats not to long to wait.
 
Kevin,
I have always been in some form of construction, mostly new home and remodel. I have been working for a General Contractor for a few years now and he has been very flexible to my schedule needs. For a year or so I intended to go full time as a maker, but as the shows come and go and I have worked out my time contraints with my family and my boss, I have decided to keep working at my regular job till something tips the scale.

After following this loose plan, I have found it suits my personality. I am a person that can get wrapped up and obsessed with what I'm doing, but I get burn out if I dont have an outside influence to regulate the intensity. Lets just say I have regulators, regular job boss and wife, not to mention all other obligations. This also allows time for the creative part of me to work. I can make repeats of knives for a while, but I really need the pressure to be off when I'm trying to be creative.

Another factor that I have come to consider in the event I should go fulltime is that I have a lot of people that like to visit my shop and talk, you know, just watch. But its hard for me to get what I need to do done sometimes when I am visiting.

If I go fulltime I would have to lay ground rules and probably post signs about such things which I would not like to do. I have my imediate family trained to some extent to blink the shop lights if they need me and not walk up behind me while I'm grinding, etc. But there is always one or two that cant resist a practical joke, you know, the dead Bull Frog on the anvil, or stomp the floor behind you kind of thing. At one time I would think it funny, but as the stakes get higher, NO. A bit off subject, but these things have to be considered anyway and especially when its the primary source of income.

At this point I'm intending to make knives part time until my boss retires or I have some other deciding factor to change things. But I WILL be making knives.
Lin
 
Good topic, Kevin, and I hope to hear from more Makers as well.
Like Lin, I've been in new home construction for the better part of 30 years. During that time, I always seemed to work for someone else for the large percentage of that. Crafting things, eyes to detail, and getting dirty have always been part of my day.
I've been making knives for almost nine years, and full time for three, come this winter.
I have a few advantages over some other Makers! I'm 53 years old, yet have only been married for 5 years during that time, single now since '91, and have never had any children! I don't have anyone to support but myself, and live alone.
That helped me out a lot during the beginning years, as I would come home from work, head straight to the shop without even gong into the house, and would stay there until 10 or so. I did that for about 5 years, and then burnt out a little. There were weeks when I didn't go into the shop at all.
Something had to give.
I got a little burst of creativity about three years ago and decided I wasn't gettin' any younger.
I litterally just quit my construction job and went full time overnight.
I starved - for a while. Now, I don't starve!
It was a scary step to take.
Had I had a family or someone else to support, it would never have happened.
For the last three years, I work ALMOST 7 days a week. There are very few times I take off a full day. Maybe one day a month I intentionally take a day off. Of course there are days when I'm away from home, doing shows, visting famly, hammer-ins, seminars, etc. But I work almost every day.
I work about 10-11 hour days.
Here it is Saturday - I think - and I've been out to the shop at about 5:30 to start my heat treating oven to get it hot.
I'm getting ready for the Ohio Custom Knife Show, so I'll be in the shjop every day until the show at the end of the month.
Quite honestly, it doesn't seem like a "job". There are few things I would rather do, (hunt and fish!), and nothing comes to mind that I would rather do on a Full Time basis.
My life is more than 1/2 over, and I see my knives as my legacy to this world. I never had children, so my knives are the only things that will have my name on them.
My friends all understand that when they come to m,y shop during the day, they are coming to my JOB! I made those rules quite sometime ago.
Luckily as well, I live in the country back in the woods along the river. I'm not on the beaten path and have few distractions.
I could go on, but I think my point is made.
I love what I do.
 
I am full part-time :)

Not for good reasons though. Last year I had the last of three surgeries on my lower back. I had to give up my job as a flight simulator technician that has supported me since I left the glorious United States Navy :D. Not joking, I loved it.

I had often dreamed of the possibility of going full-time. I just never expected it to be with such limitations. Getting something made is just a bit slower than I had envisioned. Being resourceful is the key to success in anything I guess. Figuring ways to get around physical limitations is all part of life. Only being able to work and hour or so is still more than some part-time guys get.

Being happy with what time I'm able to work is worth everything. Being happy with simple pleasures keeps me sane. Somewhat.... :)

I'm forging a new titanium spine in my spare time that I hope to have implanted once it can be done in a teleportational inplant device. :D
 
Thanks Lin, Karl, Mark and Tin as these stories are just what I hoped makers would share. Don't worry at all about wandering off topic.
We collectors know ALL about our favorite maker's knives but many times very little about the life around the knives. Not that you don't deserve your complete privacy of course if that's what you prefer.

You make good points about shop visits. I imagine it can be a very precarious situation at times when you are busy getting ready for a show or working on a difficult piece and you have pals stop over and want to swap fishing stories. I imagine one of a maker's biggest dilemmas is that people don't realize you are operating a business or working at your job.

I love to visit maker's shops. Even though most makers have about the same equipment it's very interesting how different they sit up and to see their tools and possessions they have displayed and laying around.
IMO, it's always best for the collector to ask first, and let the maker schedule a visit.
 
Kevin,
Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I do enjoy folks visiting my shop. I have invited several over the past year and will again, of course, but there are some who just drop in ,and might even bring a friend, without regard whether I'm in the middle of something or not.


This would be greatly eliminated out of necessity if I do start to make knives full time.

Lin
 
When we moved to Missouri in 1990, we had just enough $ to build a small house and pay the property off. With no income, no customers and no debt, I became a full time knife maker.

I started with $10 to $45 knives, it was a few years and several hundred knives before I broke the $100 mark.

My wife built and runs our web site and takes care of the books. We have a son in high school and no other source of income. We have no health insurance and drive older vehicles and continue to be debt free.

The keys to full time success are. (1) Learning to stay in the shop and work. (2) Making knives that folks want, at a price they are willing to pay. (3) Going to shows and building a customer base. (4) Working with dealers to get your name out there. (5) Don't take deposits and stay out of debt. (6) Last but not least, have your knives professionally photographed.
 
I'm still a part timer. My good friend and neighbor has been full time since 1998. I can definitely see some challenges with being a full time maker. The biggest challenge I see is keeping the fun in it. Too much of anything will burn you out on it.

I see him struggle with distractions too. Between the telephone, and people dropping by, there are days when he barely gets anything accomplished. If he doesn't produce, he doesn't get paid. If I get interrupted, its not so big a deal. My full time job pays all the bills. It just means I have to play catch-up a little to keep on schedule.

I will say this though, it feels really good to put a few bucks in your pocket that comes from something you made with your own hands, in your own shop, with your own equipment and tools. Its very different than working for someone for an hourly wage. It certainly doesn't pay as well, but I get a real sense of satisfaction from it. I guess you just have to live within your means. Of course, sometimes that's easier said than done. It takes planning and discipline. I'm lucky that I have a wife who works full time as well, and has the opportunity to carry our health and dental insurance if I stop working.

Even with all the challenges, more and more I look forward to the day when I can “retire” from the power generation industry and the 12 hr rotating shift work, and make knives full time. Nights just knock the hell outa me lately. So does the BS I have to put up with on a daily basis.

I'm a supervisor, so I get to deal with everyone's moods, family and personality problems, personnel conflicts, etc, etc. on a daily basis. Add to that an hour commute each way, and a huge dose of office politics too. In addition, I've worked at the same power plant for eight years now, and in only one year did I get just one W-2 form. That means I've worked for at least 15 different outfits, while sitting in the same chair. Every one of them brought us new rules, new procedures, new benefits packages and on and on....

I'm getting tired of the whole rat race. Its so nice (on my days off from the plant) to get up at a reasonable time, have breakfast, coffee, and read the paper. When I'm ready I mosey on down to the shop, turn on some music and get to work. I eat when I'm hungry, stop when I need a break, answer the phone only if I feel like it, run a errand if I need too, and just work away at my own pace. Its hard to beat that.

editided to add: Great advice Don! I must have been typing while you were posting. Your keys to success sum it up pretty well.
 
No health insurance strikes me as a dangerous gambit... I realize it's hard for self-employed people to find a decent one that's affordable.
 
Don Hanson III said:
When we moved to Missouri in 1990, we had just enough $ to build a small house and pay the property off. With no income, no customers and no debt, I became a full time knife maker.

I started with $10 to $45 knives, it was a few years and several hundred knives before I broke the $100 mark.

My wife built and runs our web site and takes care of the books. We have a son in high school and no other source of income. We have no health insurance and drive older vehicles and continue to be debt free.

The keys to full time success are. (1) Learning to stay in the shop and work. (2) Making knives that folks want, at a price they are willing to pay. (3) Going to shows and building a customer base. (4) Working with dealers to get your name out there. (5) Don't take deposits and stay out of debt. (6) Last but not least, have your knives professionally photographed.
Click to expand...

As WWG would say, "that's definitely a list for EVERY shop bulletin board".
Thanks Don.....:thumbup:
 
I'm very part time. This will be the 6th year in a row that I'll have spent 130+ nights in hotels, traveling for my "official" job. I get to spend very little time in my shop. Because of dinner meetings after full days of work in the field, I'm sometimes spending 70+ hours with customers during the week. When I get home on the weekend, I'm just totally spent. I love making knives, but working in the shop when you're physically and mentally exhausted is dangerous. I try to do safe, simple things on those weekends, such as hand polishing work, etc.

I'd love to go full time now, but the economics of it make that impossible, without sacrificing a decent salary and benefits. My plan is to slowly build my reputation, improve my skills and develop relationships and friendships in this wonderful community of knife enthusiasts (makers, as well as collectors), and to then go full time after I can retire.

I have the luxury of being able to stay part time, since income from knives is not necessary for me to have a roof over my head of food in my belly. Some makers don't have this luxury, due to circumstances in their lives. They need to make knives to be able to eat. When I see someone go full time, because of downsizing of the companies that they had worked for, etc., etc., I say a prayer for them that they are successful and can enjoy their new full time career as a knifemaker. Many times I don't even know them, but only see it here when they talk about how they are going full time because of such circumstances. I am lucky, since any income from the sale of a knife for me goes straight into tools and equipment for knifemaking, or into new and better knife materials.

This is a great thread. Thanks for starting it. I'm looking forward to hearing more from the other makers on how they view themselves and where they are headed.

Ickie

edited to add:
That was incredible, having that many new posts (3) while I was typing my post. Kind of confused me when the thread came back up completely different than when I started typing. But, then, I'm easily confused these days!
 
I cant stay away from this thread.

Don,
Your points are exactly right on the money. I have worked for myself in the past for several years and had folks say to the effect" it must be nice working for yourself. You can take off anytime you want". This is a common misconception about those who work for themselves. Everyone works for someone, even if its a knife client. It takes self discipline at the least and motivation sure helps. Motivation comes from different places. I would recommend anyone who is thinking about going fulltime to cover all of those points in Don's post.

Some guys, like me, also have a spouse that works and can provide the security of insurance and other benifits. That sure helps.
Lin
 
lwrhea said:
I cant stay away from this thread.

Don,
Your points are exactly right on the money. I have worked for myself in the past for several years and had folks say to the effect" it must be nice working for yourself. You can take off anytime you want". This is a common misconception about those who work for themselves. Everyone works for someone, even if its a knife client. It takes self discipline at the least and motivation sure helps. Motivation comes from different places. I would recommend anyone who is thinking about going fulltime to cover all of those points in Don's post.

Some guys, like me, also have a spouse that works and can provide the security of insurance and other benefits. That sure helps.
Lin
Click to expand...

Lin, Don you are so right. What many people don't realize is that when in business for yourself, you are never really "OFF".

Joss said:
No health insurance strikes me as a dangerous gambit... I realize it's hard for self-employed people to find a decent one that's affordable.
Click to expand...

So hard to find Joss.
My oldest daughter, who we assumed was still covered as a full time grad student under our policy was recently denied coverage upon a doctors visit as Grad students are no longer eligible for coverage as a full time student under parents policy even if still living in the parents house.
Sorry to get off course, however thought others may benefit by knowing of these new rules.
 
With all of the little quirks and curves that life throws, I prefer to keep knifemaking part time and have another job to provide a wage, insurance, and retirement. There are times when I cannot get in the shop and, if I were full time, I would be broke. I applaud those makers that can pull it off, it just doesn't fit my life.

Brett
 
I'm going fulltime in November this year. This has been in the planning for the last 10 years. I've adjusted everything financially to be able to do this. As Don said try the best you can to stay out of debt. My wife is working and I'm staying on my 30+ year job part time to have health benefits. My customer base is to a point where I know the work will be there. Just like Lin said, no work, no pay. You have to be commited to this profession to make it work. You take time off, you don't get paid.
Scott
 
jbgatlin said:
With all of the little quirks and curves that life throws, I prefer to keep knifemaking part time and have another job to provide a wage, insurance, and retirement. There are times when I cannot get in the shop and, if I were full time, I would be broke. I applaud those makers that can pull it off, it just doesn't fit my life.

Brett
Click to expand...

Hi Brett.
We appreciate that you and those like you continue to do the work you do. :thumbup:
 
I'm a full time maker now for a few years. Knife making is one of the hardest jobs to do. Takes years and years of learning, how ever you choose. School of hard knocks, asking questions, being shown how, practice, practice, practice, and trial and era. It is also one of the most dangerous, and unhealthy jobs you could do.
But on the flip side, It is one of the most rewarding jobs one could have.
To make knives full time you had better love it.
I put in a lot of hours making the knives I do. And for the cost of material, shop expenses, tax, and what not..... it's always something?
I don't think I will strike it rich. I'm not starving, It just takes a lot to do.
With out my skill level, ( speed ) and the INTERNET ( This forums been a big help ) I would not have sold my knives to folks all over the world like I have.
And clear across the USA. The web will continue to be a BIG part of the knife world.

Being full time though gives a maker the TIME to focus on his trade.
And this means better Knives, I think.

To the other part time makers, I too was a part time maker for a very long time. In that time, mostly making fixed blades, I thought I would not ever make a folding knife. I had NO interest in them. I did make a lot of miniature knives though. And you know that helped me a lot,( grinding a small blade by hand ) when I did start making folders. So what I'm saying here is think about what you are really wanting to do? ...KEEP IT FUN!!!.. Make the knives you like to make, and enjoy making them.

Making knives full time has worked out very well for me. And I hope I can keep moving forward from here.
Only time will tell.

Thanks for the thread Kevin.
It will be interesting to see what other makers have to say on this.

Todd Davison
full time knife maker



.
 
Being retired from another business (I am) really helps if you want to make knives full time(I do). It really helps to make knives full time, if you are retired too. People aren't as eager to ask you to volunteer for every little thing going on in the community, and you can pick and choose what you want to get involved with.

I make knives because I love it. I would do it if I knew I would not sell another knife. My brother, Charlie, and I really like for people to visit the shop. We feel like they can get to know us a little better and then they might feel better about the knife they will order later and we also get to know them. One thing I will mention, that insures that knifemakeing adds to one's life and does not detract from it, is the people that you meet. I have made some great friends and met some great people since I started making knives. People like Mark Williams, I him met at the Trackrock hammer-in a year or so ago, and again last weekend. He has more talent with a hammer than most and just knows how to make a knife look good, while using the ugliest hammer I have ever seen. Amazing what you can pick up by just watching guys like Mark, Carl, Carey, Robert, and Rick. People met at shows that always come by your table, suppliers that know what they are selling and how to use it like Pop and Rade, people in advertising departments, photographers, web guys, and forum friends, the lady you give a knife to because her son is going to Iraq, all make this one of the most rewarding things I have ever done.

There are some tough parts though, that can take the enjoyment out of it in a hurry. One that is tough is having a waiting list that is longer than you would like. The customers are great about it, and don't mind at all, but it makes it hard to take time do things that you need to do like go to a hammer-in or try a different style of knife to improve your skills. Another is the guy at a show that calls him self a purveyor and bugs you the whole show to knock a knife down to $150.00 from $225.00. The last I'll mention, my favorite, is the guy that wants a knife by a certain date for a gift,(soldier going over seas, guide on the hunt of a lifetime, son's birthday, etc.) that after you work extra hours to get it done on time and you never hear back from him. Thankfully these types are few and far between and the next customer that calls will make you forget all the problems.

The difference, it is said, between a knife maker and a large pizza is that the pizza can feed a family of four. If the reason you are involved with knives is solely monetary, then there are easier ways to make it. We all collect, make, or sell knives for our own reasons, but if you enjoy standing behind a table at a knife show, in my opinion it has to be for a reason other than just money.
 
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