Makers - what would you like to hear from collectors?

RogerP

RogerP

Joined
Feb 28, 2002
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... besides "I'll take it and two more like it!", that is.

In all seriousness, Peter Gill and I will be presenting a "Buyer's Perspective" seminar at Ashokan this year and I have no doubt we can fill our time discussing all and sundry that might be of interest to us. But it would be far better if we could address topics that might be of interest to you.

So what is it you would like to hear? What might you like us to address? Deepest darkest collector secrets will be revealed for the asking - so go ahead and ask. :)

Whether you are planning on attending or not, your input would be greatly apprecicated.

And I know this sounds like an "all take no give" request, so let me add that I will try to post up something resembling a summary of the points covered post-Ashokan for any who might be interested.

Roger
 
Something that has been covered before, I'm sure...

How important is steel type to collectors? This has many variables IMO...

-Do serious buyers look for certain steel types to fill gaps in their collection?
-Do heat treat processes come into play? (do you need to know details?)
-When does maker reputation/craftsmanship trump material used?

that kind of thing.....


Rick
 
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deal breakers vs. deal makers

materials..color combinations...

styles and sizes collected vs used

how important is collector input or collaboration vs the maker makes what they like

what endures vs what is trendy or popular

except for selling in a secondary market, how do you establish a value
 
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Serious opinions of what they like and dislike.
What they would like to see more of or What really peaks their interest.
 
A little off topic, but not much.
The best order I ever received was pretty much as follows:
"I want you to make a 7 (+ or -) inch Bowie, I want it to be your best work, do it your way and challenge yourself to your limits, cost does not matter, I want to be able to see your freedom and creativity expressed to the best of your ability."

"I want you to explain what for and why about every aspect of the knife when it is done."

That knife was an absolute joy for me to make and set the table for all to follow.
 
Thanks guys - some good stuff that will help for sure.

Don't be shy - keep the suggestions coming.

Roger
 
I would like an explaination of the secondary market. As a maker how do we set prices for our work? Why are some makers so hot and some not?
 
Bruce, your hot because you knives are drop dead beautiful.:) How important is price. Both directions. Such as to expensive or to inexpensive.
 
Why do so many collectors seem to go for knives with every possible gaudy feature imaginable all at once? Does every single square millimeter of a knife have to be laden with gold, engraving, patterned steel, anodized titanium, filework, checkering, inlays, precious stones, mosaic pins and fossilized Neanderthal teeth to be "art"? What ever happened to taste and style?
 
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As a collector, I think I can address James' questions.

What you refer to as "every possible gaudy feature imaginable all at once" is seen differently in the eye of someone interested in form over function. When I see a knife that is embellished to the max, I look for whether the embellishment is integrated or simply slapped on like so many glued on rhinestones. If it is integral and flows with the design, the total effect can be breathtaking. If it is slapped on with no design in mind, it can be ugly.

I think many knifemakers look upon embellishment as a cheap afterthought because they place a higher value on function than on form. That's fine, and will satisfy a certain customer base. Other customers, myself among them, look for more than just a really well balanced knife that cuts paper in mid air. I want to see artistry.

Taste and style are not a universal constant. There is no one "right" style for everyone.
 
james terrio said:
Why do so many collectors seem to go for knives with every possible gaudy feature imaginable all at once? Does every single square millimeter of a knife have to be laden with gold, engraving, patterned steel, anodized titanium, filework, checkering, inlays, precious stones, mosaic pins and fossilized Neanderthal teeth to be "art"? What ever happened to taste and style?
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Somebody had to say it but I thank you for going here. I have Darom's books on my bookshelf, and most artists and designers who visit and want to check out my books have the same complaint. about a quarter of the way through any one of the books, they stop, look up, and ask me why so many of the knives are so "gaudy" or "tacky".

I usually just talk about the difficulty or skill level it takes to do the represented techniques so well. That's when an architect friend of mine hit me with a line from a movie: "It looks like they spent so much time wondering if they COULD and never stopped to ask themselves if they SHOULD. Some of this stuff makes Fabergé look understated and classy."

I don't entirely agree, but I didn't really have a ready response.
 
Just to clarify what I'm saying, I understand that this is dangerous territory, and could possibly hurt a lot of feelings. Aesthetics is largely a matter of taste. It's really subjective.

I want it to be clear that I am here to make friends most of all, but part of being a member of a community should lean on an open and honest exchange of ideas regarding any number of subjects. I think the subject of design choices certainly qualifies. There was recently a thread on "critique" and I found it odd that the thread focused more on craftsmanship than anything else.

Knifemaking in my mind involves craftsmanship, design and to some degree functionality. Take any one of those out of the equation and the rest fall apart for me.
 
Not everyone has the same notion as to what constitutes "gaudy and tacky". Just as not everyone has the same idea as to what constitues "boring and uninspired". I don't see any great mystery or any great controversy. Some like vanilla, some chocolate, some strawberry and some all three. Thus it always has been. Thus it shall always be.

Roger
 
Roger I hadn't added anything because I just couldn't think of anything to add.... But my recent post in the custom section about getting multiple collectors interested in one particular knife and how to handle that.... Would be good to touch on (IMHO).

Sure wish I could be there!!!
 
tryppyr said:
As a collector, I think I can address James' questions... If it is integral and flows with the design, the total effect can be breathtaking. If it is slapped on with no design in mind, it can be ugly.
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I agree completely! You said it much more elegantly than I did. Thumbing through Knives 2010 the other day I saw a lot of knives with damscus, mosaic damascus, and colored titanium on the same piece... to me it looks like a person wearing a paisley shirt, plaid pants, and rainbow-striped clown shoes. ;)

tryppyr said:
I think many knifemakers look upon embellishment as a cheap afterthought because they place a higher value on function than on form.
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That's not my personal point, although I confess I like a dirt-simple user knife just as much as a really pretty one. I just don't care for embellishment for its own sake.

tryppyr said:
Taste and style are not a universal constant. There is no one "right" style for everyone.
Click to expand...

I agree with that too. But as Los Angeles said, just because a maker CAN do something (or more often, have someone else do it for him), doesn't necessarily mean he SHOULD.

I should point out that I think there are many makers who do indeed include "everything but the kitchen sink" in their knives, and pull it off beautifully! I'm not against art knives in general.
 
Ed Fowler said:
A little off topic, but not much.
The best order I ever received was pretty much as follows:
"I want you to make a 7 (+ or -) inch Bowie, I want it to be your best work, do it your way and challenge yourself to your limits, cost does not matter, I want to be able to see your freedom and creativity expressed to the best of your ability."

"I want you to explain what for and why about every aspect of the knife when it is done."

That knife was an absolute joy for me to make and set the table for all to follow.
Click to expand...


Good idea. I've thought about giving that to a knifemaker, but I might end up unhappy with that. If I ever won the lotto, I would like to do that with several makers. Buy one of each of their knives, with their preferred steels/handle scales for each model.
 
Let me preface this post by apologizing to my friend Roger for a little bit of thread drift.... but I think it's a necessary evil ;)

Los Angeles, I really like your posts!

I completely agree that just because you can, doesn't mean you always should. But that is not to say that you can't have a ton of elements in a knife without it working.

Our very own Bruce Bump is a guy that has a lot going on in his pieces, yet they are well thought out and work in conjunction with each other so that when he's all done... your eye isn't fighting on where to focus.

Several years ago at the Reno ABS expo, I had breakfast with Tim Hancock and Larry Fuegen --- two of the most amazing bladesmiths in the business--- and they both said they feel a maker should think of a knife similar to how you think of a woman.

If you take a women with a nice, elegant overall shape, and basic, aesthetically pleasing features, wearing a form-fitting black dress... More than likely, she will be viewed as beautiful.

Make a knife the same way... start with a nice, overall profile, and nice, basic features. That is the rock solid foundation to a nice looking knife.

You can take that same women and add some lip-stick, or maybe diamond earrings... change her hair color, her shoes.... whatever. But you start with that sexy woman in a black dress and just tastefully add to it.

If you just throw a bunch of fancy ELEMENTS into the knife, with little concern or understanding to how they'll work together... then you end up with a greasy used car salesman wearing pink and green striped pants, a poka-dot shirt, lime green blazer, and a clown nose.

These are not their EXACT words, but pretty damn close and I think conveys their point.

Personally I like "simple" look at Jason Knight, Burt Foster, Russ Andrews... These guys COULD make knives with a bunch of crazy elements going on, but they choose to make knives of a "simpler" nature... that just look RIGHT. (to my eyes anyway! :) ).

note - *** I hesitantly use the word simple as there is nothing simple about achieving just what they achieve!!!!!!!***

To help prove my point :)

Knight_090601A-ww.jpg


This one from Burt is actually pretty heavily embellished for him... but all the elements work in harmony AND EVEN IF YOU TOOK AWAY THE FANCY, the basic shape of the knife would still be very pleasing.
bowie-045-large.jpg


An absolute master of clean and elegant... Russ Andrews II
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The fancy end of things???? Now Larry Fuegen does not leave a single micrometer of his knives untouched by his very skilled and artistic eye... but it still works together! (IMHO) Now I know some folks will feel like this is too much...but if you look at the basic overall shape and proportions of this knife... it could be made from belt finished steel, ss guard and a micarta handle, and it would still have a pleasing look to it.

IMG_1089f.jpg


IMG_1091f.jpg


Tim Hancock...
BOOK-knife-%26-Folder.jpg


Of course I will leave out any tacky or gaudy makers as that would just be in bad taste all around.
 
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