Makers who no longer do customs

From the start I have tried to make what I want. But there have been times, and on occasion I still do, work with a client to meet their needs. As others have stated, there is only so much time. I have a lot of my own ideas and designs I want to get to. I am not the fastest maker. So in the time I have I want to see MY ideas come to life. I have had a customer request a knife based on one I had posted on my website but with certain changes (which were not ideal). We agreed on the changes I suggested and I made the knife. When it was time to pay the excuses started rolling in. So I canceled the order and had it sold to a better human being two days later. Another time, I worked with a returning customer to create a second knife. But it was turning into a never ending series of requests and design changes. The customer was a good guy and the knife came out great. But while I try to make sure the customer is getting what they want, they need to understand that I am the designer and builder. When a customer consults with a maker to have a knife made they should absolutely discuss what they want and what their ideas are. But they also need to put their faith in the design choices and experience that drew them to that maker in the first place. Come to an agreement up front as to the specs then let the maker go do his thing. I am more willing to work with returning customers on collaborative ideas because they have already begun building a good relationship. But I don't make knives I don't like regardless of the client or the money. If the client backs out after the project has started, I still need to sell that knife. I have time and materials invested. I can't sell a knife with pink sparkle grips, unicorns etched all over the blade in a puke green sheath with "soul stealer" stamped on it. I want the knives I put out in the world to exhibit my vision of aesthetics, ergonomics, performance. That continues to change a bit as I learn and grow. But if I'm always making other peoples' ideas just to chase a dollar, there will be no cohesiveness to my portfolio.
 
I've done both and don't do full customs these days. Too many pain in the buttocks as most have already described. I will let a customer choose from my standard models and standard handle materials and of course I do have a lot of sheath options but I don't go outside of that. For example had a guy send me some pretty cool camo micarta for a knife I was building him. He told me to keep the left overs of which there was quite a bit. I made up a hunter with the micarta for stock and that knife sat and sat and sat on the website. My customers are pretty much looking for natural handle materials. That knife still has the record of taking the longest to sell. It was months.

Even on the leather side of the shop we don't go outside of our standard patterns. In 20 plus years of doing this Horsewright deal every time we have, it bites us. When a customer says all ya gotta do is a little of this and more of that and just like this, we run away.

Or if a customer sends us a pic of something that someone else has made and says can you make this? Why don't you have them make it for you, is our answer.

Lot of it does come down to time and when you work for yourself time really is money. Developing a pattern is 90 percent of leatherwork and I can't sell that new duffel bag for even close to what I can sell three or four old style duffel bags I could of made in the same amount of time. Or I can spend time answering 47 emails and 10 phone calls and make one knife and sell it. Or make one of my Cowboy models without all the excess time and sell it for the same money.
 
(Just to be open before friends here.)

There are two things that stress me out: One, a complete custom order. Two, "Make me one just like what I saw on your website."

The complete custom order is stressful, because it's probably not something I'm comfortable making. Also, the whole time I'm thinking, "Did I get this right?" "Is he/she gonna like the end product?" "I haven't tried this technique before, will it hold up?" etc.

If I'm making a duplicate, I stress because I don't feel creative. I feel constrained and like a machine. For me it robs the fun out of it.

As a part time maker my favorite is a little back and forth. I ask questions. Then limit the options to things I think work best. Get some feedback. But in the end I build what I think is best.

I can't seem to make enough to have an inventory of stock options. I'd do it like Horsewright Horsewright if I could make 'em fast enough.
 
Horsewright said:
Or if a customer sends us a pic of something that someone else has made and says can you make this? Why don't you have them make it for you, is our answer.
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to my mind, taking on that kind of job is the absolute worst thing a maker can do and something that I will avoid with every fiber of my being.
 
To be clear, I have the utmost admiration for makers that produce quality interpretations of the classic makers patterns, like Loveless, Moran...etc. Zac Buchannan and Tim Steingass come to mind, as well as a slew of others.
 
I’ve made some missteps in that regard. I made a Street Beat pattern a few years ago when asked to by a customer. At the time the Spyderco version was listed as discontinued and it didn’t even occur to me to check whether Fred Perrin was still an active knife maker. When asked to make more of them I reached out to him to admit what I had done and ask his thoughts and he told me he had no problem if I made them when asked, but don’t just make them and put them up for sale. I decided if anyone asked again, and some have, I would only make it if they agreed to some subtle stylistic differences to differentiate it.

I also made a copy of a CPK as an agreement for a trade. The customer told me there would be no more of this CPK model of boot dagger, and asked me to make a copy in exchange for a DEK-1. Then a few weeks after that was put in motion I got a message from my plasma cutting service provider who said I had room left on the steel sheet and would I like him to put a few extra daggers on it since they would be easiest to fit. I thoughtlessly said sure go ahead, not really thinking it through. Ended up with seven blanks I think, and made half a dozen before I ended up having a conversation with Nathan that made me facepalm and realize I should have at the very least reached out to him first if not outright refuse to make a copy and propose my own design instead.

So one of the dangers I’m now concerned with is what if a customer draws something up and I agree to do it but it turns out to be a signature design by another maker?

A solid argument for sticking with my own designs or variants thereof.
 
navman said:
To be clear, I have the utmost admiration for makers that produce quality interpretations of the classic makers patterns, like Loveless, Moran...etc. Zac Buchannan and Tim Steingass come to mind, as well as a slew of others.
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And this too, of course. Some classics need to be kept alive. Sharpfingers, Kepharts, etc
 
I stopped taking custom orders a while back. Many of the reasons have already been discussed already but my main reason was disappearing customers. I had an almost 3 year stint where about 90%of customers who’d ordered knives never completed the transaction. Some cancelled, many ghosted, and I got a LOT of excuses about money troubles when the knives were done. I was lucky enough that pieces eventually did sell but that was time spent building pieces that I wouldn’t have built other than for an order. The extra kick in the teeth was noticing that the most demanding customers seemed to be the ones who ghosted the most 🤬 Nowadays I make what I want to and occasionally take suggestions on designs.
 
I've been away from making knives for a couple years but want to get back into it. Before I stopped I was full custom. I don't plan to do customs anymore except for friends, family, good clients. Here's why:

1. When I first started out, I went the custom route because I didn't have name or any way to attract customers so it was a way to attract customers and build a brand.
2. I don't charge until the knife is done. I had one guy order a boning knife. He wanted his logo etched into it. Before I etched the blade I contacted him to make sure he was happy and he was. After etching and completing the blade (with a custom dyed burl handle) he ghosted me. Now I'm stuck with it.
3. I had a couple order a knife. They wanted a chef's knife. During the design process I asked if they wanted a slicer or a work horse. They wanted the best slicer. My turnaround at the time was 3-6 months plus I had other orders ahead of them. They started bugging me every few days asking where their knife was. Keep in mind, no money down. Then they started saying I told them 2-3 weeks. I laughed at them. I finally got so annoyed with them I prioritized their knife just to get them off my back. Two years later I get a nasty email "my knife chipped... what the hell?". No problem, I offer full guarantees. If I can't fix it to their satisfaction I'll replace it or give them their money back. All I ask is that they are honest in how it was damaged so that I know if I did something wrong in the process or it was damage by miss use. When he brough it to me it had a medium .5cm chip on the edge which looked like it was side loaded. As they wanted a slicer this knife was ground to 0.001" before sharpening. I gave them a care sheet which said only slicing, no side loading or dragging, no cutting anything with bones etc. He swore he didn't know how it chipped, he was using it, and the saw the chip. He never cut bone, frozen material and stored it in a block. I was confused and thought maybe there was a micro crack when I sold it. It only took 10 minutes to grind it back and resharpen it. He was shocked it was so easy to fix. He said "ok I was cutting up a chicken with it". Even though I didn't blame him for the damage and was not going to charge him for the repair, he didn't want to tell me. It was because of this customer I didn't want the hassle anymore. No I plan on making what I want to make and if it sells, it sells.

I will note that 99% of my customers were awesome! I love the design process with them. Just understand that if you do this as a hobby, making custom blades will move it from hobby to a job and suddenly you'll have deadlines, emails, follow ups, status reports etc. It's a great way to attract business but also way more effort.

Another thing is heat treating. Making customs complicates heat treat in that I always need liquid nitrogen on hand. No I plan to make a batch of blades and finish them as I have time.
 
In my experience in furniture and wood, being someone who does custom work is a niche market. Most buyers don't need amd don't want to pay for custom work. It takes time, decisiveness and most of all a lot of cash to be worth it.

Some craftsmen have the people skills, marketing and business skill to manage custom orders while also delivering a product high enough quality to please those few wealthy, very demanding customers who want and can pay for custom work. But it's a huge headache, and in my opinion its something you do in the mid/ late part of your career. You have the advanced skills, and the respect and renown to say no to jobs you don't want to do.

Its very lucrative, but very demanding work.
 
most of my work and sales is commissioned customs
not the most efficient productive work, but I like it
I like it because of the engagement and relation with the customer, and their satisfaction is fulfilling.
It also pushes me to enter into areas or materials I'm not normally doing
Yes indeed you do get the customer who is into 50 emails back and forth,
but you at some point you have to gently tell them to give you some space.

how to make it work?
charge more, enough so you don't regret the order.
say no to things that are out of the ordinary
if it's a first time relationship, I ask them to send in a small deposit of their choosing.
Not because I need the money but I want them to be committed.
I have the right to cancel the order at anytime, if I cancel, they get a refund, if they cancel, I keep the good faith deposit.
 
I can only speak as a customer:

As a long time BF member and knife nut, I can honestly say: I don't need anymore knives. I can pretty much use a different knife for each day in a year...
I am not a collector per se, but a user and having a knife made custom to your hand is something very special.

If you trust the maker to do it right and the maker also thinks that the effort is worth the pain, the outcome is just amazing.

The below knife here started as a crude sketch from me and ended up as replacing 99,9% of my other EDC knives.
I use this knife all day every day, and honestly can say it does everything I need with more ease and less issues than with any other knife I had before.

Thx.jpg

Crag the Brewer Crag the Brewer made this for me. He went through all international payment issues and shipping trouble to get this in my hands.
Due to me living in Germany all these steps were stressful and took really long. I hope I wasn't a big pain in...

So to all craftsmen and makers:

You create something special for someone and if the reward is bigger than the effort, then keep doing it.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR WORK!
 
There are really only so many useful blade designs out there. Unless it is a fantasy piece or what not. So in reality isn't every knife maker copying something else? I mean you can alter things somewhat. Who does do full on customs anymore? I honestly don't see many blades by any maker of any material at any price that fits my criteria. It seems like there are genres and trends in knife making to. To follow the$$? I mean there are so many "tactical" oriented designs and marketing ads. I can't even find someone to make me a beefed up kabar Bowie style to my requirements, out of a pretty simple steel even. Trying to contact knife makers is futile. No one answers emails or they have closed shop. And the established ones don't do customs. They turn into manufacturers of there limited offerings. Frustrating!
 
Wasty said:
I can only speak as a customer:

As a long time BF member and knife nut, I can honestly say: I don't need anymore knives. I can pretty much use a different knife for each day in a year...
I am not a collector per se, but a user and having a knife made custom to your hand is something very special.

If you trust the maker to do it right and the maker also thinks that the effort is worth the pain, the outcome is just amazing.

The below knife here started as a crude sketch from me and ended up as replacing 99,9% of my other EDC knives.
I use this knife all day every day, and honestly can say it does everything I need with more ease and less issues than with any other knife I had before.

View attachment 2526237

Crag the Brewer Crag the Brewer made this for me. He went through all international payment issues and shipping trouble to get this in my hands.
Due to me living in Germany all these steps were stressful and took really long. I hope I wasn't a big pain in...

So to all craftsmen and makers:

You create something special for someone and if the reward is bigger than the effort, then keep doing it.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR WORK!
Click to expand...

I appreciate All the praise you give.... THANKS!
Love seeing this.
This was a Fun build. He was very flexible and willing to go along with what I suggested. The design, and build went smoothly, each of us sharing our thoughts. I hoped you would love the knife as much as I do.

-Shipping was nerve racking though, it took Way longer than I expected. Next time, I wont worry so much! Haha


And I learned a new word to add to my vocabulary....... "Handschmeichler"
 
HSC /// said:
I like it because of the engagement and relation with the customer, and their satisfaction is fulfilling.
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Agreed!

HSC /// said:
It also pushes me to enter into areas or materials I'm not normally doing
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This has been great for me. I have added a lot to my modest toolkit from people asking me to do new things.

HSC /// said:
Yes indeed you do get the customer who is into 50 emails back and forth,
but you at some point you have to gently tell them to give you some space.
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This is it. You nailed it. That is what happened so many times and which I no longer have time for. As soon as I detect signs this is where something is heading I get anxiety and just politely decline the job. Not as much with people I have already served, because it seems like we get a feel for each other’s communications style and preferences and things can go smoothly even with a lot of back and forth. With some people it feels like every message is progress and leads to a more certain vision of what is to be done. When that is absent or when a conversation forces me to ask a bunch of questions that feel like they should be preemptively answered from the start, again, anxiety and a preference to decline the job with thanks and move on.

HSC /// said:
how to make it work?
charge more, enough so you don't regret the order.
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I’ve thought about this a few times. Haven’t been able to bring myself to do it.

HSC /// said:
say no to things that are out of the ordinary
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Sometimes. But not if I know I can do it. Still, good advice.

HSC /// said:
if it's a first time relationship, I ask them to send in a small deposit of their choosing.
Not because I need the money but I want them to be committed.
I have the right to cancel the order at anytime, if I cancel, they get a refund, if they cancel, I keep the good faith deposit.
Click to expand...

I have also thought about doing this. Or just making a design consultation fee on top of the knife cost itself. Also haven’t been able to bring myself to. Yet.
 
David Mary said:
Agreed!



This has been great for me. I have added a lot to my modest toolkit from people asking me to do new things.



This is it. You nailed it. That is what happened so many times and which I no longer have time for. As soon as I detect signs this is where something is heading I get anxiety and just politely decline the job. Not as much with people I have already served, because it seems like we get a feel for each other’s communications style and preferences and things can go smoothly even with a lot of back and forth. With some people it feels like every message is progress and leads to a more certain vision of what is to be done. When that is absent or when a conversation forces me to ask a bunch of questions that feel like they should be preemptively answered from the start, again, anxiety and a preference to decline the job with thanks and move on.



I’ve thought about this a few times. Haven’t been able to bring myself to do it.



Sometimes. But not if I know I can do it. Still, good advice.



I have also thought about doing this. Or just making a design consultation fee on top of the knife cost itself. Also haven’t been able to bring myself to. Yet.
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I like that idea of an upfront design consulting fee.
50-100, whatever, upfront...... If the maker cancels the money is returned.
It pays for an hour or two of back and forth, and material searches, etc.

I thought of making a list I send out of all the important questions and features wanted, and expectations. Send it FIRST to those new clients for them to fill out and return. Even with a place for pictures of color likes, or sketches..... I bet it Could eliminate a lot of back and forth
 
David Mary said:
Boils down to this:
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Yes and that is a really great reason! After 25 years of working on my own little custom knife adjacent endeavors I can usually tell within an email or two that a customer is going to be a challenge. Sometimes I have ignored my better instincts and gone ahead anyway and it invariably bites me in the hindquarters. Usually this involves drama and rework and a loss on the project for me financially.

Therefore when I get one of those emails I try to tactfully say something like "I don't think I am going to be able to meet your expectations.".
 
David Mary said:
Agreed!



This has been great for me. I have added a lot to my modest toolkit from people asking me to do new things.



This is it. You nailed it. That is what happened so many times and which I no longer have time for. As soon as I detect signs this is where something is heading I get anxiety and just politely decline the job. Not as much with people I have already served, because it seems like we get a feel for each other’s communications style and preferences and things can go smoothly even with a lot of back and forth. With some people it feels like every message is progress and leads to a more certain vision of what is to be done. When that is absent or when a conversation forces me to ask a bunch of questions that feel like they should be preemptively answered from the start, again, anxiety and a preference to decline the job with thanks and move on.



I’ve thought about this a few times. Haven’t been able to bring myself to do it.



Sometimes. But not if I know I can do it. Still, good advice.



I have also thought about doing this. Or just making a design consultation fee on top of the knife cost itself. Also haven’t been able to bring myself to. Yet.
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DM I know for me anyway. Communication with computer is so frustrating, all I have for computer is a phone.it sucks. Can't get my thoughts on page before another one distracts me. Also how can a person get a custom blade without referencing other blades as "kinda like this" for instance? The blade I want is a mish mash of the best attributes of all the blades I have. With the makers experience in edge geometry for the steel and application and ergonomics in handle and gaurd. A design fee is TOTALLY acceptable and a lot of makers do it. Ernest money ,if you will.
 
i have been making "Customs" since 1997
yes it can be very challenging as a maker... many e-mails/phone calls... i simply require a 1/2 down deposit so the customer knows "No Money no Honey"
then they have to pay the other 1/2 when done... like many i have been very frustrated by some customers ...sometimes {not very often } they want to back out
and i offer to send them their parts ..... more times than not they have me finish the build....
i have decided to change gears and go back to folders ,more than butterfly knives as that market is oversaturated with CNC guys working very cheap...
the customers are usually young guys with little money and huge desires {champagne desires on a cheap beer budget}
 
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