Makes me sick ... and sad.

[d.r.h.]

Batting average was 1 for 2 this week, with respect to counterfeit CRKs. Earlier this week saw two of those blasted Chinese knock-off Mnandis on ebay. Both were listed by a guy in Israel. Had a number of emails with him (as well as notifying CRK and Ebay) explaining to him that they were not genuine and even showing him examples of the same knives he was listing and where they were made (he was even using the same stock pics that are often used with these.) He informed me that he got them from a "friend" who swore they were real. To his credit (I hope), he removed them. However, the next battle didn't end so well. Saw a counterfeit Starbenza being listed. Lots of back and forth with the lister and multiple counterfeit notifications sent to Ebay. Conversations with the lister went from "you are wrong .... it is real" to down right belligerent exchanges .... even after I explained how he could tell it was a counterfeit and showing him multiple examples of the same counterfeit knife. No doubt in my mind he knew what he was doing .... as I was in a total state of disbelief when I looked at what he had previously listed (and sold) as genuine Spydercos!! Well, as I said .... this one didn't end up so well for some unknowing sap who dropped $240 on this piece of junk.

Well, guess that's it for my little Saturday morning rant.

 

[atony]

Very sad to see all the garbage floating around as of late, seems like a lot of companies are getting hammered by fakes. You did your part by pointing them out to the sellers, I have no doubt that people know what they are doing, just out to make a quick buck.

 

[MDQBox]

Too bad people aren't diligent in doing their research prior to purchasing such a high-end knife. I know before I make such a purchase, I at least spend a few hours if not days researching the real thing and how to spot a fake as well. Part of my research involves turning to the knife community and BF for advise and pointers. I can understand how some people still manage to get ripped off even after doing their homework, but a lot of other victims don't take the time to fully vet the item prior to purchase and I think those people, to some degree, deserve what they get - CAVEAT EMPTOR (BUYER BEWARE).

Also, I think the knife community benefits from people like you who take the time to point out the fakes and let the seller (or perpetrator) know that what they are trying to sell off is a fake. It also lets them know that potential buyers are educated to the degree that they can spot a fake and will not tolerate it being sold to anyone as the real deal. KUDOS to you d.r.h. :thumbup:

 

[Ernie1980]

That's great that you went to the effort to try to reason with those people, that is more than most of us will try!! However, the above post says it all, if a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. I don't buy off ebay at all, too many shady deals done there.

 

[franzdom]

I wouldn't point out the issues, it only makes the fakes better in the long run...

 

[MDQBox]

I wouldn't point out the issues, it only makes the fakes better in the long run...

You do have a point, however it also lets the sellers know that they are trying to sell their fakes to a mostly educated community which may discourage them from trying to pass it off at all.

 

[masterserg]

I wouldn't point out the issues, it only makes the fakes better in the long run...

I think this is the wise thing to do. Just report to CRK and ebay but do not point out the problems. Obviously, their target is not the CRK educated community. Pointing out flaws only contributes to make the fakes better.

 

[Ken44]

I know a Mod has said report these to CRK instead of posting here, but I think people here really need to know about the fakes.
If not for this type of post I would have never knew there were many fakes on the Bay.

Its a help to our community, and if not for these post someone here could be taken. Reporting to CRK, and posting here is a good thing IMO.
There is a Mod in the Spyderco room that keeps a running thread going about fakes, and I think that is a great thing, as it helps members here.

Thank you for the post.

 

[d.r.h.]

I wouldn't point out the issues, it only makes the fakes better in the long run...

That could be a valid point, however .... the vast majority of slugs selling these things on eBay are not the folks making them. They are just preying on uninformed people. What baffles me is that the Chinese makers of these knock-offs obviously have detailed pics, samples, or diagrams .... because, what they are producing is pretty darn close to the originals (to the untrained eye) ...... so, why do they overlook some of the obvious things? In the example above .... I mean really ..... that darn black box ...... the 'blue' thumb stud on a supposedly new Starbenza ..... an off-shade blue CRK microfiber cloth "with fringe cut edges" ..... just don't know. However, my overall success rate in getting the sellers to remove the items is currently around 60%. I would like to assume that these people actually thought they were selling real CRKs. On the other hand, have no idea how many of them removed the items only to list them again under a different eBay member name!!

 

[_user_removed]

That could be a valid point, however .... the vast majority of slugs selling these things on eBay are not the folks making them. They are just preying on uninformed people.

I don't believe those selling these fakes are nearly as naïve as they're made out to be. You mentioned seeing several spyderco fakes in the seller's history. I I believe this guy and those like him get those fakes at a premium from those who make them and flip them with full knowledge of the knives lack of authenticity.

What baffles me is that the Chinese makers of these knock-offs obviously have detailed pics, samples, or diagrams .... because, what they are producing is pretty darn close to the originals (to the untrained eye) ...... so, why do they overlook some of the obvious things? In the example above .... I mean really ..... that darn black box ...... the 'blue' thumb stud on a supposedly new Starbenza ..... an off-shade blue CRK microfiber cloth "with fringe cut edges" ..... just don't know. However, my overall success rate in getting the sellers to remove the items is currently around 60%. I would like to assume that these people actually thought they were selling real CRKs. On the other hand, have no idea how many of them removed the items only to list them again under a different eBay member name!!

My guess is that a production is setup to make these along with fake other things. They've got schematics that detail parts used, but when it comes to the minute details, the assembly line workers who put them together don't know or probably don't care about them. Blue thumb stud, silver thumb stud - it's a hole that a thumb stud goes in so they put one in it.

 

[panersche]

A degenerate doesn't just wake up one morning.. It takes a real low life years of experience. I hate to say it but as the knife community grows and demand increase these reps and knockoff "homage" whatever you want to call it will exists. The only way to yield this market is not support it. If they can replicate a rolex, panerai and other high end watches, even pharmaceuticals products, a knife is nothing too complicated. The only reason why handbags watches and other knockoffs still exist is because of the low lives who support them. Trying to keep my two cents minimum

 

[lemmuhj]

I used to be like drh, but I got so aggravated with sellers and especially ebay, that I stop messing with it. I don't even go look at ebay anymore for CRK's.

 

[Blades'n'45]

information and being educated on the topic of counterfeits is the best way for buyers to fully be aware and make good buying decisions . I'm sure counterfeiters aren't getting an edge by listening to us point out the flaws in there fakes.all they need is 1 real sebenza to cross examine with .
but by letting Consumers know all the small differences in the real and fakes they have a better chance of not getting ripped off .

 

[Thomas Linton]

You do have a point, however it also lets the sellers know that they are trying to sell their fakes to a mostly educated community which may discourage them from trying to pass it off at all.

On the contrary, they sell to the unknowing, aided by those who tell them how to build better fakes.

 

[brownshoe]

If you are too stupid not to know it is a fake, you shouldn't be buying it in the first place. CRK lists the authorized dealers on their website for anyone who cares not to be ripped off.

 

[d.r.h.]

If you are too stupid not to know it is a fake, you shouldn't be buying it in the first place. CRK lists the authorized dealers on their website for anyone who cares not to be ripped off.

Well, at the risk of being flogged ..... I have to say that there is probably a larger than you would think percentage of people (at least in the US) that ARE too stupid (which is really frightening, as they also are allowed to vote). Perhaps stupid is not the most appropriate term ... naive .... gullible .... single minded .... unalterably indoctrinated by our way of life ..... I don't know. Maybe a combination of all of those. Why else would we have manufacturers and merchants spend mind blowing amounts of money on television commercials which promise the absurd. And they seem to work .... because if they didn't, they would not be cost effective to produce and air!

Anyway, really don't see a need to continue this thread much longer. Just started it to lower my blood pressure! And, for the record ... as a follow-up, I thoroughly researched the slug selling this fake. Every other knife sold by him (or currently listed) is a knock-off .... from Bokers, to Striders, to Spydercos, to Cold Steels, and others. He knows what he is doing and none of the people who bought his junk seem to care. (only 1 negative feedback in the last 6 months). Same guy also (in 2007) established a vehicle dealership selling scooters/carts/parts for Shanghai Meitian Motorcycle Co. Although he is not Chinese, I am sure he knows how to pick up these knock-offs from the Chinese market. And again ...... people like him (the slugs) are not the counterfeiters. Having a go at them does not give the counterfeiters an edge. They are just profiting from what the counterfeiters are doing. And frankly, I seriously doubt there is anything CRK (you or I, for that matter) can do to stop it.

 

[Fooj]

Batting average was 1 for 2 this week, with respect to counterfeit CRKs. Earlier this week saw two of those blasted Chinese knock-off Mnandis on ebay. Both were listed by a guy in Israel. Had a number of emails with him (as well as notifying CRK and Ebay) explaining to him that they were not genuine and even showing him examples of the same knives he was listing and where they were made (he was even using the same stock pics that are often used with these.) He informed me that he got them from a "friend" who swore they were real. To his credit (I hope), he removed them. However, the next battle didn't end so well. Saw a counterfeit Starbenza being listed. Lots of back and forth with the lister and multiple counterfeit notifications sent to Ebay. Conversations with the lister went from "you are wrong .... it is real" to down right belligerent exchanges .... even after I explained how he could tell it was a counterfeit and showing him multiple examples of the same counterfeit knife.

I'm late to this thread. Dennis, as others have said, major kudos to you for your efforts. You went to a LOT of work to hopefully save a few unsuspecting folks from the heartache of getting fooled with junk, and although it may take a mountain of guilt to change the counterfeiter, you tossed on a good shovel full. Unfortunately, these battles are fought one crappy deal at a time.

As for me, unless it's a really interesting case, I no longer bother CRK with a report of bay knock off cases. I spend the 30 seconds to click the "Report Item" and use the pull down menus to file a counterfeit report. It may not stop these guys, but if enough of us report them, it will slow them down. CRK has enough to do making us more excellent products and providing the extraordinary service that earns our business.

 

[nyefmaker]

I report every one I see to ebay and to CRK when I can. As Chris has stated, its the price of fame and the best product in the world, people are bound to try and copy it. If they were making knives that looked just like them, that's one thing, but to be allowed to put the CR logo on the is what burns my ass more than anything. Ebay obviously doesnt do anything about it, because even after reporting it as counterfeit, they still allow it to be listed......wtf. All we can do as CRK fans is point them out and just not buy them. Eventually, they will be stuck with the junk if people would stop buying their garbage...!!! I know me personally, I would never spend a single penny for one that I found on the street even.

 

[Mike Gesualdo]

I report every one I see to ebay and to CRK when I can. As Chris has stated, its the price of fame and the best product in the world, people are bound to try and copy it. If they were making knives that looked just like them, that's one thing, but to be allowed to put the CR logo on the is what burns my ass more than anything. Ebay obviously doesnt do anything about it, because even after reporting it as counterfeit, they still allow it to be listed......wtf. All we can do as CRK fans is point them out and just not buy them. Eventually, they will be stuck with the junk if people would stop buying their garbage...!!! I know me personally, I would never spend a single penny for one that I found on the street even.

I agree. I don't have as much of an issue with the unbranded clones, but putting the logo on is disgraceful. Not only did the customer spend three times what he should have, but CRK lost out on a sale, and if the customer thinks its real, his opinion of CRKs will go down. Not to mention, there's always the chance that it will be resold again as legitimate.

That said, people do need to learn to be educated consumers, so I don't have much sympathy for whoever won that. When buying something, be it $300 on a knife, $30,000 on a car, or $300,000 on a house, you should know exactly what you're buying (and ensure you can actually afford it, but that's another story). It takes minutes to educate yourself on knowing how to spot a CRK fake. There are Youtube videos and forum posts aplenty which are a simple Google search away. Dead giveaway with that one was the box, not to mention lack of a card and different screws.

 

[d.r.h.]

Okay ...... I really didn't want to continue this thread ..... but, figured I would give an update. Since I failed at convincing either Ebay or the slug to remove the item prior to it being sold .... I took a different approach (since I am retired, have just a tad more free time than most). I waited until the buyer posted feedback on the sale (which, because he was totally uninformed, was positive). Contacted the buyer and explained that the knife he purchased for $240 was not only a fake, but also being routinely sold for around $40 on the counterfeit market). Intent was to have the buyer initiate a complaint with Ebay and/or PayPal. Well, he did. Here is the response I got today:

"Thank you for the prior information. The seller was initially offended,
but when I filed an eBay Resolution case, he accepted a return with a full
refund. The knife is in the mail; I hope the refund materializes."

Huh ..... go figure ..... the seller (who has nothing BUT counterfeit/misrepresented knives for sale in his listings) was offended! Don't feel nearly as sick and sad now.

Quite frankly, as has been pointed out .... CRK really doesn't have the time to track down and stop this stuff. Ebay usually won't, as it means profit loss on their part. So, when I have the time, my plan now is to first notify the seller, file a report with Ebay .... then drop it. If/when the item sells, will just drop the buyer a note and let the buyer decide what to do.