Makiing Blades Japanese style

M

MilliePop

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Aug 21, 2008
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How come no one makes knives...especially large campknives...using the Japanese method of inserting a low carbon steel inside of a high carbon steel to produce a sharp blade with a tough inner core?
 
Do you mean high carbon inside low carbon? There are companies making folders as well as fixed blades with what is being called San Mai - three layer, that is a hard sharp core laminated between more flexible outer layers.
 
I'm pretty sure it softer core harder blade edge. So it could be done as long as someone has the know how.

And actually I've been thinking of that reverse technique of having a harder inner core and softer outer. So when it is sharpened the inner harder core is exposed leaving a harder edge. I thought I'd invented it but I guess others are doing it already.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Do you mean high carbon inside low carbon? There are companies making folders as well as fixed blades with what is being called San Mai - three layer, that is a hard sharp core laminated between more flexible outer layers.
Click to expand...

Esav, san mai with the high carbon is very common, but I think Milliepop is talking about the traditional japanese type blade with a kobuse style construction that is with a core of medium carbon or soft steel with a jacket of high carbon steel around it:

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/laminate.htm

In answer to the OP, I do not know.....
 
I have tamahagane I made and would be willing to make a knife with it if requested; but the customer better be prepared to pay and arm and leg just for the steel cost. :p

Deleted because better information is given by Stacy.
 
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While it could[/I be done, the better question is why.]
A Japanese style blade can be made in many ways. Most have a hard core that goes to the edge and a soft or medium side and soft spine , for toughness.
Here are the main types of Japanese blade formation -
Maru kitae - mono-steel blade of medium to high carbon
Wariha tetsu kitae - a split soft billet with a hard bit forged in to make the edge
Kobuse san mai kitae - a hard "U" with a soft core added. The spine and core will be soft, with a hard side and edge.
Hon san mai kitae - four piece billet with two hard sides, a hard edge and a soft spine
Shihozume kitae - a five piece billet with medium sides, a soft core, a hard edge, and a hard spine
There are several other more exotic systems, but these are the most common.
For those who want to know -
The hard steel is called chigusa; the medium,jami; the soft - hocho

Back to your question. A camp knife by definition is a hard user. It could be made from any tough steel. 5160,1065 to 1084, O-1, D-2, 3V or any of the other CPM steels. Edge holding should be good, but need not be extreme (as in a fillet knife). The edge geometry for a camp knife would be heavier and thus tougher, too. Few of these things would be greater in a laminated Japanese billet, but the expense would be far greater.
Stacy
 
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The short answer is that it doesn't necessarily make a better knife. Modern steels and well established heat treating are generally superior to laminated construction, all else being equal. Also, there's the matter of availability. I don't know of any US steel mills making laminated blade steels, a bit more common in japan. If you want to do it here you need to do the welding yourself, not too difficult for those who can do pattern welding, but then why not just do pattern welding in the first place. ** The construction style in the link is a bit different from what I was thinking of, but the comment about chosing the appropriate steel with the right HT still holds true
 
I thought they did the lamination because the lack of/expense of the higher carbon steels, and it was a material saving matter?
 
Sometimes a broken sword is used as a work knife in Japan.
They are very highly valued not to mention.
But nobody tries to make a work knife in a construction similar to our sword.
The reason is it is too elaborate (which means expensive).

Oops! there seems to be an exceptional bladesmith; sorry Carcara.
 
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For a San Mai constructed knife, you could contact Murray Carter to see if he can make a knife the size you want. He makes sizes from small neck knives to large & long outdoors knives. From my experience with a couple of his kitchen knives we have, his wares are extremely high quality. You do pay for the quality though.

Here is Murray's website: http://www.cartercutlery.com/
 
That knife by Yoshihiko Akitomo is exactly my point. A paltry $3200. The cost of a kobuse blade or a san mai blade would be many times more than a standard camp knife.
Stacy
 
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