Making a blade from a file in 9 easy steps

stezann said:
Hallo Tai, is it possible for you to try to explain some way for me to tell the kind of files i find around? Here in sardinia (italy) i never found a Nicholson, so i'm little concerned about selecting the right file; if are there some hints to look after.
Consider that sellers here have only available k720 (o2), C70 and stainless... no plain carbon to play like w2 or 1080 unfortunatly, so files could suitably jump in for certain projects.

Thank you for your indications!
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with k720 (o2), C70 and stainless is a different animal.

First you'd have to determine what type of steel you have or at least it's working properties and go from there. I limited this thread to Nicholsons, just to simplify it. However, there may be other brands that it would work with.
 
I have done this technique 4 times now and it does to work.
None of the knives I have produced so far are beauties that collectors will joust over someday, but they are a usable, functional knife.

Thanks.
 
Tai Goo said:
Just trying to keep it as simple as possible... no forging involved.
Click to expand...

Wait.... uh.... WHAT?!?!?!?? :eek: :eek: :eek:

:D

BTW- Tai, you know I've always held a deep respect for your abilities and outside the box thinking.... but also poked at you now and then about stirring the pot.... It's nice to see you making a concerted effort to share some of the knifemaking knowledge built up in that brain of yours. :) :thumbup: :cool:
 
It was an intriguing problem for me,… to simplify it as much as possible and still keep it fun, interesting and practical. Glad it’s working out well so far.

It’s always a bit of a challenge to simplify something so complex… I like the boiling down process and the occasional gentle stirring. :)
 
C/ Cr/ Mn/ Mo/ V/ Si/ W
C70 0,74/ 0,03/ 0,71/ /0,2/ 0,25

W1 1,00/ 0,15/ 0,25/ 0,1/ 1,00/ 0,2/ 0,15
W2 0,86/ 0,15/ 0,32/ 0,1/ 0,24/ 0,23/ 0,15

AAAArghh impossible to post the chart correctly!!
 
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stezann said:
Hallo Tai, is it possible for you to try to explain some way for me to tell the kind of files i find around? Here in sardinia (italy) i never found a Nicholson, so i'm little concerned about selecting the right file; if are there some hints to look after.
Consider that sellers here have only available k720 (o2), C70 and stainless... no plain carbon to play like w2 or 1080 unfortunatly, so files could suitably jump in for certain projects.

Thank you for your indications!
Click to expand...

Stezann, when I get an unknown file that I want to make into a knife I score it near the tip with an abrasive disk, then snap it in a vise. Usually it will create a random shape with silky appearance in the break (important, this distinguishes the file as through-hardened and not case-hardened)... at that point I will temper at 400f plus and then grind in the hardened state. If you have heat treatment capability then anneal, shape, HT as Tai wrote, pretty much treating the file as if it were straight high carbon steel

I'm nostalgic about file knives since my first full size knife was made from one.
 
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wnease said:
I'm nostalgic about file knives since my first full size knife was made from one.
Click to expand...

Yes, But are you nostalgic about:
Poor sex and no staying power, because your first experience was in the back of a car and lasted 30 seconds?

Cheap beer, because the first beer you drank was Rolling-Rock?

Really bad whiskey, because the first you ever drank was Old Granddad?

I bet not. I think people come back to file knives because they seem so primitive and basic. Sort of like rolling your own cigarettes - surely not as good, but in some ways, more fulfilling.


BTW, I have had several emails thanking me and Tai for putting up this info. The info on annealing a file properly has been specifically mentioned. The old vermiculite and slow cool from full red heat is not the way to soften a file. Either bring it up to above 1400°F ( red heat) - cool to 900°F (black heat) - and then quench;
or heat ONLY to black heat and slow cool. Both are different ways of getting a soft file.
If you heat a file red hot and bury it in the ashes/vermiculite overnight, I guarantee you will find hard spots in places when you start filing.
 
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Stacy, I think at least part of the nostalgia stems from where people got the advice to make an old file into a knife. I've heard several say they had a grandfather that recommended the approach, and probably showed a young impressionable kid some of the knives he made from files.

My grandfather was more inclined to drink cheap whiskey than make knives, so I have no such nostalgia. My father was never very handy with metal, so there was nobody in my life to teach me lessons I needed to overcome. In that respect, I suppose I was lucky.

Apart from that paternal heritage of making inferior knives from files, I would suggest that it's really more like a virus than anything else. People see others do it and exclaim the great results, and so they decide to try it themselves. It gets passed from person to person, spreading faster and faster as the internet provides access to bad information as fast as it does the good information.
 
Stacy and tryppyr you have good points, really good points because once a year I do drink really cheap beer, eat cheap chicken based loaf material on soft bread, and pound down store-brand chips (that's a hunting trip for me! and yes I fill the one tag they give me) but making a file knife is much more like rolling my own smokes, making my own stick-bow, butchering my own meat even though the butcher is way better and I could make better money going to work that day! Absolutely fulfilling though you won't see me stretch one out into a sword to cut a 2 by 4 in one swipe 'cuz that's gonna be dangerous, nor would I depend on one as a bug-out-blade.

I did think at one time that a knife made from a file must be a good cutter because it's made to cut steel...

Hundreds of knives later made from expensive barstock and I still grab old files when I see them! I hoard steel I can't help it! And some customers LOVE the look of a file knife (with teeth still on the flats).
 
bladsmth said:
Yes, But are you nostalgic about:
Poor sex and no staying power, because your first experience was in the back of a car and lasted 30 seconds?

Cheap beer, because the first beer you drank was Rolling-Rock?

Really bad whiskey, because the first you ever drank was Old Granddad?

I bet not. I think people come back to file knives because they seem so primitive and basic. Sort of like rolling your own cigarettes - surely not as good, but in some ways, more fulfilling.


BTW, I have had several emails thanking me and Tai for putting up this info. The info on annealing a file properly has been specifically mentioned. The old vermiculite and slow cool from full red heat is not the way to soften a file. Either bring it up to above 1400°F ( red heat) - cool to 900°F (black heat) - and then quench;
or heat ONLY to black heat and slow cool. Both are different ways of getting a soft file.
If you heat a file red hot and bury it in the ashes/vermiculite overnight, I guarantee you will find hard spots in places when you start filing.
Click to expand...




This. Having tried it several ways, this method works WAY better than "heat it to non mag and bury it".
 
wnease said:
Stezann, when I get an unknown file that I want to make into a knife I score it near the tip with an abrasive disk, then snap it in a vise. Usually it will create a random shape with silky appearance in the break (important, this distinguishes the file as through-hardened and not case-hardened)... at that point I will temper at 400f plus and then grind in the hardened state. If you have heat treatment capability then anneal, shape, HT as Tai wrote, pretty much treating the file as if it were straight high carbon steel

I'm nostalgic about file knives since my first full size knife was made from one.
Click to expand...

That's one was what i was looking for!!!! :))) thank You sooo much!! I will combine Your test with water quench & snap and spark test...
Yes the heat treatment is one of my favourite process, the more after i encountered this forum (rosetta's stone), i'm doing a file yanagiba bocho forged from a big file, but i miss the first treatment...probably too much normalization and canola oil @60°C (from 850°C x 5 min.) won't mix well if it's w-steel.
The next time i will try water and raise the temp a bit in the last minute soaking...sorry i didn't test the file before...i fear it's rubbish!!! Pity, it was an huge chunk of steel
 
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wnease said:
Stacy and tryppyr you have good points, really good points because once a year I do drink really cheap beer, eat cheap chicken based loaf material on soft bread, and pound down store-brand chips (that's a hunting trip for me! and yes I fill the one tag they give me) but making a file knife is much more like rolling my own smokes, making my own stick-bow, butchering my own meat even though the butcher is way better and I could make better money going to work that day! Absolutely fulfilling though you won't see me stretch one out into a sword to cut a 2 by 4 in one swipe 'cuz that's gonna be dangerous, nor would I depend on one as a bug-out-blade.
I did think at one time that a knife made from a file must be a good cutter because it's made to cut steel...

Hundreds of knives later made from expensive barstock and I still grab old files when I see them! I hoard steel I can't help it! And some customers LOVE the look of a file knife (with teeth still on the flats).
Click to expand...

+1000!!! also going countryside it' worth looking for a chunk of funny wood even though sellers provide burl, stabilized beautiful and long lasting pieces. It's a primal attitude of man and i never sell a knife, only gifts for people important in my life and for me... So if the knife breaks or doesn't harden it's not a drama. I also use known buyied steel, but here in sardinia we don't relay on many choiches... only O2, C70 and the omnipresent stainless steels, the last ones i won't be able to use.
 
I just find file knives charming.
I find the recycling part charming and also the contrast you can have with the rougher look when you can clearly see the blade is made out of a file with a well made, beautifull handle.
Also the surpise on peoples faces when the regonise the blade has been a file in a previous life :)

Stezann, there are many mail order web shops in Europe. They will ship to Italy as well.
http://www.corporazioneitalianacoltellinai.com/
I beleve this is the website of the Italian knife makers guild. There are beautifull knives being made in Italy.
I think that if you contact them, they'll help you find good steel and other materials.
 
I have annealed files succsessfully doing the way greenpete shows in his video.
Build a campfire and get good coals going, spread coals flat and evenly, lay files flat on coals, place alot of smaller diameter, dry,wood on top(8 inches worth it so), i then use a hair dryer to get the fire roaring quickly, and a few more small pieces of wood. let it burn and dif the files out the next morning.

Low tech and it works so far for me.
 
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