Making a modern MKI

E

evildick

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Let’s say I am at work and my boss decides to let me use their 5 axis grinding/milling machine to make a product I want to make. All I have to do is buy the grinding wheels and tooling and pay him $30 an hour and I can have the machine for 5 hours a day in the evening.

What I want to make is the MKI knife with modern materials and a few better engineering upgrades.

My question is what steel (CPM or tool or anything) do you feel would be best to complement this design and bring it into the modern world.

I am going to make the blade just exactly as the MKI is designed but I am going to give it a wider tang with a good size radius from the blade to the tang to ease stress cracks. The handle I am going to make out of G10 so it will not be so handle heavy. I will cut the G10 into washers, mill out the center slots and then slide them onto a tool to stick in a CNC lath to give them an arch and groves. The pommel I will make out of something really lite and black.

The blade will be a natural (as in no black coating) finish but I do not yet know what steel to use.

It will be advertised as a good little bush craft/general purpose knife. I do not want stainless and it needs to be very and I mean very tough and strong.

Can you give me any suggestions on the steel and why? Also remember I have to use something that is not going to rapidly wear out my grinding wheel and tools.
 
12345678910 said:
What's a MK1 ?
Click to expand...

I think hes referring to a gerber mark 1.

At 30$ an hour just for machine time it seems this is gonna be one expensive knife. Unless you're making a boatload of them in one run. The cool thing is, you could pretty much make anything you can imagine, if you have the capabilities to get the full potential out of this machine. Look at nathan the machinists wip thread. I'd be interested in how this turns out.
 
MKI is the forerunner to the Ka-Bar fighting knife. Similar in shape with similar construction. It was typically a private purchase knife by soldiers post WWII I believe but may have been earlier. Typically it is a clip point blade with stacked leather washer handle and a heavy pommel.

For your project I would use a good high carbon steel to stay with the original design to some degree. If I were going to make this myself I would go with D2. Very tough and abrasion/rust resistant steel and still clear of the hyper modern alloys that would seemingly take away from the classic design. It would also meet the requirements you listed.

I would personally construct a knife like this without the aid of CAD/CAM work as I think that goes against the tradition of the knife. If you are set on it though, I say have at it.

I am curious about what you mean by "advertised as a bush etc knife?" If you are planning to sell it, stick with what it is... a fighting knife. I guess if you are going to change enough of the detail to make it unique, then it won't really be a MKI and you can advertise it however you see fit... Just be aware, there are about a million versions of that design on the market...

Good luck. Post it up when done!
 
Thanks for the reply guys.

Yes I am talking about the MKI USN. It is the knife that was made for sailors. I always thought of it as a rope cutting knife since that is what most sailors would use it for back in the day. I feel today it is a good knife for many uses.

I plan on trying to produce anywhere from 100 to 500(but probably only 100 at first)to see if I can make it in the knife making world. Once I write a CNC code and figure out how to tool it I can maybe produce maybe about 1 blade blank about every 10 minutes I hope but I will have to play with it to see.

G10 is about 25 bucks a foot for a 1.125 diameter stock and I hope I may be able to get 3 handles out of every foot. It will depend on how I stack them and what kind of end washers I use.

If I can get them to run at 1 every 10 minutes I can produce 6 an hour which is only 5 bucks per blade in machine time. My expensive part is my time and money in stress releiving and heat treat and assembly and then in the end a finish polish.

I am considering S7 but feel it may not be strong enough. I know its tough enough but it may snap too easy.

I am also thinking of CPM D2.
 
Listen to me, talking like I know everything in the world. Sorry bout that.

In reality I could use most any kind of steel but if my design is not fit for my steel what would it matter. If I use 1095 and a 25 deg edge and then decide to go to S7 and still keep a 25 degree angle than what is my gain, none but I just made my knife more expensive. Now if I want to make my S7 blade with a 20 degree angle I gain since I have made a thiner edge to cut better yet it is still tougher than 1095 ata 25 degree angle. Now if I make my 1095 blade with a 20 degree angle (just in theory) I have weekend the edge so I am now making a week knife.

Anyway, thanks for the few answers and in time I will find out.
 
First, I would advise you to rethink making that many knives for sale before you have established yourself. I don't mean this negatively, but I have never heard of you... If you are interested in making $5 knives and selling them for $20, this might not be the place for bouncing your ideas around. Most of the smiths here pride themselves in producing one or two knives at a time, made with their own two hands, and finished to a superb end product that not only looks terrific and unique, but will slice through (literally in some instances) most $20 and under manufactured stuff out there... Nathan the machinist does machine a lot of knives, and sets up a production run with his designs, and may be a good resource for you. That said, he has unique designs, and his final treatment of the steel is where it should be... and I have heard of him. Sorry, but that is kinda where this business goes.
If you want to be on the fleabay with the rest of the substandard quality Chinese crap, wannabe customs and terrible clones that are on there, have at it. But I would urge you to abandon this while you are still eager to produce a decent blade, and resolve yourself to putting out a real quality product.

As for your ideas about steel and angles and all that, its fine, but you can't be an engineer alone with this stuff. I can take a 1095 blade with a mediocre grind, excellent heat treat and beat the snot out of your machined exact angle crazy alloy blade all day long if you don't nail the HT... And I guess I don't really understand what you are meaning by angle. Are you meaning the angle of the sharpened edge or the whole grind? The angle compounded or just one side? Honestly, the answers to all of those is going to be "it depends." The reason it depends is that it isn't as simple as cutting out a shape and grinding it to a finish. There is a metallurgical process that has to be addressed to produce a quality blade. Believe me, there are a hundred or more Journeyman Smith contenders who would love for it to be that simple. The more stress you induce in the grinding process, the more normalizing needs to be done to relieve that stress. The final hardness and the area of the blade that is at final hardness also needs to be addressed... Angles don't mean squat if the blade is too brittle to maintain an edge, or so brittle in its entirety that it snaps like a piece of ice the first time any lateral stress is introduced to it. That is where the artistry and skill of making a knife comes in.

You are right, a lot of MKI USN's were used for cutting rope, but the specific design was a fighting knife. The fact that they handled so many chores including cutting rope was the fact that they were available. They were kind of like a pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses. You just had to have one, because it was what it was etc. You have to remember it was a personal purchase item, and thus did try to capture interest with the 'combat' appeal. As a whole, they liked that crap as much back then as we do now. Everyone wanted a fighting knife even if they didn't fight, just like not every pair of aviator sunglasses went to pilots or leather jackets went to bomber crews... There are better designs for utility knives, better designs for bushcraft knives, and better designs for cutting rope. And, while I am at it, there are honestly better designs for fighting knives as well. It is great and classic, and I love them for what they are, classic, but there are better designs out there made of modern materials plain and simple.

If you want to try and "make it in the knife world" going that route, you are either going to be at one price point competing with the aforementioned Chinese junk, or trying to compete with established manufacturers like Kershaw, Zero Tolerance, Benchmade, CRKT, etc... You will have to have a real hit on your hands for that to happen.... That is why I suggest making a limited number, real world test them, get them out there and in some hands and when they come salivating for more... Think if it bombs, now you have invested time and money on 100 knives you can't sell.

I am not trying to totally discourage you, just spreading my $.02. Take it for what it is worth. Of course, I make one knife at a time the old fashioned way, and under one masthead only make original, never duplicated pieces... And I am happy to just keep the lights on in the shop. My MS mentor makes his living at this, and his one resounding piece of advice when I started selling my stuff was not to think of this as a business or a source of income. To make what I love because I love it. The money will come if you stick to that ethos.

I am sure I have offended a few, and probably you. I mean it only to encourage you to do this for the right reasons and to help ensure your success. I have had successes and failures in business over the years and I surely remember the failures most.

Good luck. And rely on this forum as I have discovered it is a wealth of good information and willing helping hands.
 
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meh, have at it. But make a prototype first and find out where its coming up short of your ideals. To spend the time and money on a knife design that hasn't been tested out would be crazy. Post some pics of the work too. Good luck.
Leif
 
If you plan to make them in runs of 100, get the blanks waterjet or laser cut then use the CNC to cut your primary bevels.
this will let you maximize your steel use, minimize waste, and reduce machine time & grinding wheel use.
4" handles will be too short for many users on a 5" fixed blade, both in look and in function.

as to choice of steel -- the more wear resistant a steel, the longer it will take to cut bevels and the more wear on your cutters.
make your proto out of 1084 - it's easy to work with and won't cost much.

G10 spacers is an interesting concept -- don't forget saw kerf for lost material which means your 3 handles per foot will really be closer to 2 handles per foot unless you're using a contrast washer between each piece of G10.

this is a very ambitious project, it will be interesting to follow your progress.
 
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