Making a post anvil? With video WOW

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JG Custom Metal Works

JG Custom Metal Works

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Nov 27, 2013
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So, I want to build a anvil. Pretty much a square post anvil. Roughly 5” x 5” x 12” made of 1045. Does anyone know where to get a chunk that size? Also, what would be the best way to heat treat something like that? I have a newer Evenheat KO 22.5 TAP controlled that is plenty big for it, but I’m just not sure if it would work to heat something that big up. I guess I don’t know why it wouldn’t, it just would take a long time I guess. It’ll reach 2400f but it’s suck an abnormal sized sized piece, I wouldn’t want to damage my kiln. Iirc something that size would weight close to 100lbs and I’m not sure how it would handle that weight. I’ll probably call Evenheat tomorrow and see what they say.

Any opinions? Also, any recommendations as to heat treat? I’m thinking heat to critical then quench in water, then temper back with a leaf burner possibly. I just saw this anvil and want to make one exactly like it:

 
Were I making anvil like that, Would not bother heat treating. Hardened is nice, but not a dealbreaker on a makeshift postanvil.
 
Lieblad said:
Were I making anvil like that, Would not bother heat treating. Hardened is nice, but not a dealbreaker on a makeshift postanvil.
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Did you watch the video? It was pretty damned impressive if you ask me. I’d say that awesome rebound would function very well in relation to forging. As opposed to the non-heat treated piece he had
 
JG Custom Metal Works said:
Oh for F’s sake, did I say something that didn’t make sense? Well you can add to the list my wife has. If you don’t have anything of value to add, take your facepalms to another thread.
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Wow don’t get so bent out of shape. I have posted over and over about my thoughts on anvil rebound. And how it does nothing for us except increase the wear resistances Of the surface. When I have more time tonight I will wright it out agian. There is nothing wrong with wanting a hard anvil but wanting it becaus it will make forging easier is false.
 
JG Custom Metal Works said:
Definition

Rebound- “bounce back through the air after hitting a hard surface or object.”

Seems appropriate to me. Facepalm
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And why would you be hitting a hard surface. Your steel should be soft and absorb all the energy you hammer has. If it’s bouncing back then it’s to cold. Put it back in the forge.
 
JTknives said:
I will let Trent explain it
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That guys arguement is “horse poo-poo” same as your facepalms. He assumes that the argument EVERYONE is making about rebound is that the ball bearing test makes the hammer bounce back up and makes for less work. That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard lol. I’ve never heard anyone make that arguement. But of course he likely surrounds himself with idiots, who he can belittle(like with facepalms)to build himself up and purge is inadequacies. The whole point of a ball bearing test is to demonstrate the level of hardness. It’s basic physics that smashing a soft material in between two HARD pieces of material is going to smash it out. The harder those two materials are, the more it smashes it out. Therefore, a ball bearing test that shows more rebound, shows that the anvil is harder, making for a better(as long as it’s not brittle) surface to smash metal on. Otherwise no one would even harden the face of anvils

Facepalm
 
JTknives said:
And why would you be hitting a hard surface. Your steel should be soft and absorb all the energy you hammer has. If it’s bouncing back then it’s to cold. Put it back in the forge.
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I’m not “hitting a hard surface.” I’M TRYING TO SMASH HOT STEEL BETWEEN TWO HARD SURFACES. Not one hard surface(the hammer face), a soft surface(hot steel), and another soft surface(anvil face that is not hard enough). Now if you don’t have anything other than patronizing, snide remarks to make buzz off and find somewhere else to build yourself up. Because it’s not happening here
 
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JTknives said:
Wow don’t get so bent out of shape. I have posted over and over about my thoughts on anvil rebound. And how it does nothing for us except increase the wear resistances Of the surface. When I have more time tonight I will wright it out agian. There is nothing wrong with wanting a hard anvil but wanting it becaus it will make forging easier is false.
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Lol Don’t come in here belittling people and act like I’m the one who’s wrong.

Your “thoughts about anvil rebound” are wrong, it’s basic physics. That’s the whole point of smashing the damn hot steel between two hard surfaces, not one hard surface and a soft surface. But this thread is about making a post anvil. If you want to continue with this please make your own thread.

And for the record, I didn’t start with all the negative BS. You did.
 
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Hardened anvil is nice and will help put force back into a workpiece But hand forging of blade size material.. Unless a guy is forging nonstop all day, I doubt a guy would really notice a difference. Its not a great advantage.
 
Lieblad said:
Hardened anvil is nice and will help put force back into a workpiece But hand forging of blade size material, I doubt a guy would really notice a difference. Its not a great advantage.
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But there’s a reason two hard surfaces are used in 9 out of 10 anvils. There’s a reason professionals aren’t all using rail road track anvils in cement. I’m not saying you can smash hot steel between cold soft steel and a cold HARD hammer face. But there’s a reason most people who forge don’t.

I just want to figure out how to harden a damn block of 1045 and not scald the hell out of my legs when I quench it... I didn’t mean to get into anvil hardness theory

I’m sorry to sound exasperated man. I don’t mean to direct it at you. I appreciate your insight.
 
JG Custom Metal Works said:
That guys arguement is “horse poo-poo” same as your facepalms. He assumes that the argument EVERYONE is making about rebound is that the ball bearing test makes the hammer bounce back up and makes for less work. That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard lol. I’ve never heard anyone make that arguement. But of course he likely surrounds himself with idiots, who he can belittle(like with facepalms)to build himself up and purge is inadequacies. The whole point of a ball bearing test is to demonstrate the level of hardness. It’s basic physics that smashing a soft material in between two HARD pieces of material is going to smash it out. The harder those two materials are, the more it smashes it out. Therefore, a ball bearing test that shows more rebound, shows that the anvil is harder, making for a better(as long as it’s not brittle) surface to smash metal on. Otherwise no one would even harden the face of anvils

Facepalm
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First off Trent is a very experanced professional blacksmith that does this full time. I’m not trying to start a fight I’m trying to explain anvil rebound and why it’s hype. Think about it. Hot steel is soft, all that matters is that the hammer and anvil are harder then the hot steel. It’s cald yeald strength. If you exceed that amount of psi then the surface becomes plastic and moves permanently aka a dent or ding. It takes energy to plastically deform the hot steel. A harder or softer anvil is not going to increase or decrease the amount of energy the hammer has. And as long as the anvil does not absorb the energy by denting then it is not consuming the energy. But if the anvil was say lead then it would becaus hot steel is harder then lead. In Physics you have elastic and inelastic collisions. And elastic collision is where both objects kenetic energy is the same as the first object that struck the stationary object. Forging is an inelastic collision which is when kenetic energy is absorbed But momentum is conserved. The converted kenetic energy is converted into heat when we forge. But the law of Physics states that momentum is conserved. This is why anvils with more mass and anvils that are mounted securely have an advantage. But anvil hardness does not factor into this inelastic coliision because it being harder then the hot steel will not absorbed the kenetic energy becaus it is not deforming.

JG Custom Metal Works said:
I’m not “hitting a hard surface.” I’M TRYING TO SMASH HOT STEEL BETWEEN TWO HARD SURFACES. Now if you don’t have anything other than patronizing, snide remarks to make buzz off and find somewhere else to build yourself up. Because it’s not happening here
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I’m not trying to build my self up, I’m perfectly happy how I am. I’m trying to disprove a myth that so many people propagate as truth.

All I’m getting at is it’s not worth your time to harden it. And the reasion professionals want hard is becaus hard steel has better wear resistance the soft steel. And over the years and years of constant day in and day out forging the surface will wear away.
 
JTknives said:
First off Trent is a very experanced professional blacksmith that does this full time. I’m not trying to start a fight I’m trying to explain anvil rebound and why it’s hype. Think about it. Hot steel is soft, all that matters is that the hammer and anvil are harder then the hot steel. It’s cald yeald strength. If you exceed that amount of psi then the surface becomes plastic and moves permanently aka a dent or ding. It takes energy to plastically deform the hot steel. A harder or softer anvil is not going to increase or decrease the amount of energy the hammer has. And as long as the anvil does not absorb the energy by denting then it is not consuming the energy. But if the anvil was say lead then it would becaus hot steel is harder then lead. In Physics you have elastic and inelastic collisions. And elastic collision is where both objects kenetic energy is the same as the first object that struck the stationary object. Forging is an inelastic collision which is when kenetic energy is absorbed But momentum is conserved. The converted kenetic energy is converted into heat when we forge. But the law of Physics states that momentum is conserved. This is why anvils with more mass and anvils that are mounted securely have an advantage. But anvil hardness does not factor into this inelastic coliision because it being harder then the hot steel will not absorbed the kenetic energy becaus it is not deforming.



I’m not trying to build my self up, I’m perfectly happy how I am. I’m trying to disprove a myth that so many people propagate as truth.

All I’m getting at is it’s not worth your time to harden it. And the reasion professionals want hard is becaus hard steel has better wear resistance the soft steel. And over the years and years of constant day in and day out forging the surface will wear away.
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I take it this is the part of your performance where you usually befuddle the people you hang around with your half-cooked contradictory logic and misspelled scientific terminology? Throw in terms like “inelastid collision” (inelastic?) and they just submit to your intellectual dominance? Lol

In one breath you say an anvil face doesn’t absorb energy because it doesn’t deform and in the next, you say “hard steel has better wear resistance the soft steel. And over the years and years of constant day in and day out forging the surface will wear away.”

This thread isn’t for your crusade against the “myth that so many people propagate as truth.” This is a thread about hardening a block of 1045. The amount of energy it takes to harden it shouldn’t be all that hard at all in the scheme of things. To be honest I find it interesting and potentially fun. I figure one to two hours to heat to temp, and 30mins to quench. Then I have a hardened anvil that will last me a life time. You say that the effect of a hard faced anvil is small, which I disagree with. But let’s say you’re right. The amount of time that would be invested in hardening the face will be trivial. Two or three hours max and that marginal improvement will last multiple lifetimes and reduce wear. Why NOT harden it? I started the thread because I want to know how to do it right. Not argue about anvil theory.

At this point I don’t really give a damn the reasoning you think I should have for doing it. So just tell yourself that my reasoning is whatever makes the most sense to you. I’m not a mean guy and I make friends everywhere I go. I don’t start shit. But I also don’t take shit without slinging it right back in to the face of the person who threw it in the first place. I’m not big on getting into spats and arguing with folks and that’s certainly not what I’m on blade forums to do. If you want to discuss anvil hardness theory, just make your own thread man.
 
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The wear resistance of hard steel has nothing to do with absorbing energy or anything of the sort. What he was saying is that it is more wear resistant. What wears away at things? Abrasion. What is very abrasive? Forge scale on a blade being pounded on. I’m not here to take sides or debate anyone, but the higher wear resistance of hardened steel, and the fact that harder steel won’t dent as easily on a missed hammer blow, all makes complete sense to me regardless of whatever energy it does or doesn’t absorb. Regardless of performance, hard steel makes sense for longevity of the tool.
 
JTknives said:
I’m not trying to build my self up, I’m perfectly happy how I am.
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Are you trying to convince yourself?... Because I don’t think you are. If you were, what would compel you to come in here and say “‘rebound’ facepalm.” ? Because what you’re doing is attempting to mock and belittle me. Not that that’s some crime against humanity, that bothers me to the core, but that’s the truth and speaks to your security of self. Security that in normal, healthy circumstances wouldn’t need to be bolstered by mocking or belittling someone(right off the bat before anyone says anything to you), or spinning a conversation to topics you think you know so much about(but don’t), so you can preach stentorian from the mount. I think you might want to take some time to reflect on your motives. It’s kind of sad really... Of course I’m sure you’ll be along shortly to fake laugh real loud and tell me how wrong I am...
 
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