Making D2 Kitchen Chefs knife.

blgoode

blgoode

Joined
Oct 3, 2003
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Man.........I hope this knife works out. I am going to attempt some 154 stainless down the road and I have had this wide piece of D2 for a while and am using this for practice. The knife is 1/2 ground and in the heat treat as we speak.....cross your fingers!!
 
I too am going to get some 154cpm for down the road, but for today I am using D2 I have had in the shop a while. Hell, its not that different than the other stainless stuff but I really dont know what I should about steel makeup. Can someone inlighten me on what makes 154, ATS-34, and S30V so much better than D2? Not being a smart ass at all but by the numbers I dont see THAT much difference. But then again, I dont really know what I am looking at.



Oh - here is my D2 blade after 1st temper today :)
 

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I haven't seen a lot of claims that ATS-34 and 154CM are better than D2. They have better corrosion resistance, sure. D2 is claimed as being "semi-stainless", and it does have greater corrosion resistance than many other alloys, but with around 5% chromium in solution after heat treatment, it is nowhere near the 10% or more that the stainless steels have. They are all high carbide steels, forming primarily chromium carbides, with around the same carbide volume. ATS-34 and 154CM have a better secondary hardening peak if you want to use an upper temper or for some reason need hot hardness. The wear resistance and edge stability are similar. ATS-34 and 154CM have a greater potential hardness, but they don't really have the toughness to work at the hardness they are capable of anyway. D2 is pretty tough considering the high carbide size and volume, but the difference between D2 and 154CM toughness-wise isn't astronomical, IMO.

When it comes to CPM-154 and S30V, the PM process gets them more into the line of toughness of D2. S30V also has greater corrosion resistance, wear resistance, and edge stability (ability to hold an acute edge). The PM process gives them a smaller average carbide size for greater toughness, corrosion resistance, potential hardness, etc. Again, S30V has similar carbide volume to these other grades, but some of it is vanadium carbide, which is even harder for greater wear resistance, but ups the difficulty on resharpening as well as finishing. The reason having a large volume of large carbides makes a steel brittle is because carbides are extremely hard and brittle, which adds to wear resistance, but have a low volume of fine, evenly dispersed carbides is much better for toughness. It's all a balance depending on the properties you want. S30V has the best balance of properites of these steels, IMO. Its main drawback is difficulty in finishing/polishing.

By the way, it can be very difficult to simply look at a composition and know the properties of a steel, not without a lot of study and knowledge of all the various balances of composition, and that is difficult without the software programs that are able to calculate it for you. Even then the software is often wrong, at least a little bit, and the real world takes over. Looking at the microstructure,\ and the various mechanical properties tells you much more about a steel. Here are a few micrographs of the steels in question, the white parts are carbides.

S30V: http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s30vxv3.jpg
CPM-154: http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpm154eb3.jpg
ATS-34: http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ats34gf2.jpg
154CM: http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=154cmll0.jpg
D2: http://www.knifeforums.com/uploads/1181826854-D2.JPG
 
I do apreciate the feedback my friend :) Man, this can make a mans head hurt :)

See why I just stick with 0-1;) Nah - Looks like I have more reading to do. It takes a few reads to get this stuff through my thick head :) So by the looks of things S30V has more evenly dispursed Carbides wich means harder to wear out, stay sharper longer, but be a bear to sharpen at the same time.

I am looking for a rust worry free steel but still be easy to sharpen so I am leaning towards 154 or even ATS-34 because its cheaper to get than S30V I think.
 
My favorite for kitchen knives is 13C26/AEB-L. It is also in the cheaper range. It gives up some more wear resistance to have very fine carbides with a low volume. It's a lot closer to carbon steels, if that's an interest to you. You can get it from Admiral.
 
Larrin said:
My favorite for kitchen knives is 13C26/AEB-L. It is also in the cheaper range. It gives up some more wear resistance to have very fine carbides with a low volume. It's a lot closer to carbon steels, if that's an interest to you. You can get it from Admiral.
Click to expand...
If I were ever to make stainless knives, this is the steel I would chose. It is really good stuff :thumbup:

And IMO D2 is a better choice than ATS34/154cm or S30V.
 
10v not SS
i like cpm154 over s30v in the kitchen and the feed back is bearing this out
cant say anything about 13C26/AEB-L as i hav enever worked with them
 
Don,
Just currious why you favor D2 over the other Stainless.....

I am making a D2 chefs knife right now so I am really wanting to know:D
 
Brian, First, I don't care for stainless. I usually get flamed when I give my opinions of the popular stainless knife steels. :)

So, all I'll say is D2 has preformed better for me over the higher alloy steels. But I like simple carbon steels much better than all of it. It takes little effort to take care of a finely made carbon steel knife.

As for my comment on 13C26/AEB-L. I have spent several hours talking about steels with Devin Thomas and he has convinced me this is the best choice for thinly ground stainless kitchen knives.

Brian, do you realize that your first name is nowhere on your site or profile here.
 
Don,
As you know I am a big 0-1 fan and really have limited knowledge about the stainless choices out there. I am excited to hear that you prefer D2 over the other steels and that adds fire to the fule to get my D2 chefs knife done :)

Never thought about my name!! Thanks for the help....adding that now :)
 
I gave up 440C and ATS 34/154 CM in favor of D2 for hunting knives years ago. Over the last few years I have been making D2 and S30V Hunters and A2 bowies and camp knives. I have gradually come to the opinion that for a using cutting knife, it's pretty hard to see much difference in the field between the three types as far as edge holding goes.

I have had customers that have field dressed, skinned and quartered more than one elk with hunters made out of each of these steels without having to stop and sharpen. Heat treat, blade geometry and edge quality along with skill in use have all contributed, I am sure.

I have a D2 santoku and an A2 chef's knife that I use constantly in the kitchen and love both. They both seem to hold and edge for about the same length of time.

My daughter has a D2 santoku I made for her and she chops coconuts and pries them apart with it. Not what most people think of D2 as good for...
 
Give me 13C26, CPM154 or S30V over D2 any day (and in that order) - for kitchen knives. I do make a few kitchen knives...and am expanding my stainless options...and am looking more at the first 2 above, than the others. 13C26 finishes better, easier to sharpen, finer grain, better stainless than D2. The only thing D2 has over it is wear resistance - great for skinning a deer or cutting rope...irrelevant in the kitchen where a sharpener is readily accessible 24/7. Most chefs/users I make kitchen knives for actually prefer something they can sharpen regularly - as it is a daily ritual for them.


So...FWIW, YMMV...my 0.02

:foot:






[edited to add] I have used S30V before...and like it a lot...but feel it may be "too much" for the average user. CPM154 is more user-friendly. 13C26 is quite user friendly - and knifemaker friendly too. :D
 
I think I am going to try and etch the D2 a tad just to add to the surface protection. If it doesnt look too bad that is....wont hurt I dont guess :)

THis knife is a cool 60 RC and will wear a natural micarta handle. Not the handle I Wanted but it may look good and warm after its been a beater around the house :)
 
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