making my first knife .. have questions ..

H

Harleyfx69

Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
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Hi guys, i am a newbie to the forum here.. for a new "hobby" im giving a shot at making knives,

i dont have a lot of items to work with, just basic hand tools and hand power tools,

i am working with 440C stainless a large chunk of it at 1/4 inch X 12 "

my heat treat is going to be through a firepit with the coals as heat source,

heating till it takes some color and is no longer magnetic

then oil quench in hot oil and then its off to the oven for a temper cycle,

2 hours at 400 degrees,

does this sound about right ?

help me out :)
 
If you're working with 440C, you're going to have to send it out for heat treating at this point. It's not really designed for an oil quench as was mentioned, and you won't get much hardness at all from a heat to non-magnetic and quench if you manage not to crack the blade by quenching in oil. That, as mentioned, works well for 1084, but little else.

For a beginner, if you want to do your own heat treats, stick to a more simple steel like 1084 or 1080. It's perfectly fine to start working with stainless steels, but realize you cannot heat treat ANY stainless I know of with a fire pit. You've got to heat to high temps with accurate control in a controlled environment (stainless foil wrap) for long periods of time. Many makers, even after years of work, still send out their stainless blades to buys like Paul Bos or Texas Knife Supply for heat treating.

Welcome to the boards. Read up a bit and research before you try that first heat treat. Don't let this thread be a downer. Keep pursuing your first knife and let us know how it turns out. Feel free to post any questions.

--nathan
 
thanks for the quick replies guys,

for my first knife , i dont really want to have to send it out , i actually got the steel from texasknifemakerssupply.com , at this point i will save the steel for later,

where is a good place to get the 1080 or 1084 , i hope to be able to do all my own work on this one ..
 
harleyfox im new and i would recomend sending it off. You want to heat treat then use tool steel. go to this site and youll see some heat treat properties http://www.engnath.com/ its an excellent source of material kellyw
 
Welcome to the forums.
If we knew where you were it would make it easier to help you. Filling out your profile will give us that info. Recently, we had a new maker ask a similar question ,and after the simple supplier answers found out he was in NSW Australia. Also, there might be someone near you who could help you get started, or provide some steel.

The basic answer has been said....get some 1080/1084 steel. It will work with the simplest of HT.

Also, read the stickies at the top of the forum page, there is some good info here.
Getting a good book on knife making ( check your local library) will be a wise idea. The basic build process, and simplified HT are all needed to know before you do things like order steel.

Hope your knife project goes well. And, welcome, again.

Stacy

( Yes fellows, I gave him the same advise I give all other newbies....Fill out your profile - read a book - learn HT first)
 
thanks guys for the replies,

i generally no longer fill out my locations and what not after i had an "incident" online ..

But im from northern arizona , and ive been reading all i can on the subject, and somehow got it in my mind that the 440c would be easiest to work, i think im interepreting the diagrams and what not wrong,

i will eventually work my piece of steel of 440c and then send for heat treating and tempering, but for now just to practice i will look at admiral steel and get a user servicable piece,

Thanks guys
 
Great call, Harley. Let us know if we can help you in any way. This is a great place to learn from some amazing makers who I know have helped me countless times whether through direct questions or me just reading the boards. There are some Arizona makers on here. Maybe one of them in northern Arizona will post his location and be able to help you out.

--nathan
 
And on the for sale sectin of the Maker's forums, look for Aldo Bruno's post "The Steel Is In". He sales an excellent 1084 steel that he had a run made.

--nathan
 
thanks guys for the websites and the forum reference, i will check those out,

and onto another question,

what "equipment" would you all recomend,

i need / want this equipment not just for "knife making" but other things as well,

drill press, bench grinder/ sander,

looking for the best bang for your buck, as im on quite the budget, also what other begining equipment?
 
by the way here is my first knife ive "made" .. ive learned a lot just by screwing around with it .. i have no intentions to finish it as i did not make the handle to my comfort, nor did the blade turn out how i wanted, i need a band saw or something similar for cutting metal..
 
I think that you should consider a few of these:
-hacksaw/bandsaw
-files/belt grinder
-drill press
-sand paper
-respirator
-tongs or similar "pincey" device for fire
-a good vice is nice
-maybe an angle grinder for roughing out stock.
 
I am making a small knife out of 440C and I guess I had the same thoughts that I could heat treat it with a propane torch then oil quench or some other quench.
I guess ill have to send that one out. Are there any stainless steels that you can heat treat using the simple magnetic method and then quench in water or oil or saltwater etc etc?
I live in Hawaii and prefer not to make things out of non stainless as they will rust faster. I did buy some 1095 to play with though. Can this be done with that method?

It is a small knife about the size of a silver dollar. What happens if i do heat it till it is past non magnetic and then air or oil quench and temper? It is small so it wont need to withstand a lot of abuse and flexing etc.
 
It won't harden properly. The reason you need a long soak at high temps with stainless and other complex alloys is to get all of the carbon into solution and evenly distributed throughout the steel. A lot of this carbon is bound up in carbides of the alloying agents like chormium, and they take time and heat to break down and distribute. My guess is you won't have enough carbon evenly into the solution to create a sufficiently hard blade.

All stainless steels are complex enough to require precise temperature control and extended soaks. Also, many more complex non-stainless steels such as A2, D2, etc fall into the same boat. The only steels that can be PROPERLY hardened by heating to non-magnetic and quenching in random oil is 108X series steels or even 107X series. That's just the way it is. No wishing or wanting will change that.

--nathan
 
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1095 you can probably get by with a forge heat treat, but you really need a fast quench oil to beat the pearlite nose (has to get below the nose in under a second). Most readily available home brew oils aren't quite fast enough. It usually takes a fast oil like park's 50. However, you could try it with a brine quench.

--nathan
 
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