Mammoth ivory finishing question please

on_the_edge

on_the_edge

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I have several small scraps of unstabilized fossilized mammoth ivory. How do I go about finishing them if I want a smooth, glossy finish with no cracks or voids that hopefully will not shrink or expand in time?
 
shrinking or expanding won't have anything to do with your finishing techniques, unless you overheat it, and then you may see all sorts of weird shit a day or two later.

Take to 800 grit with sharp belts (only use AO belts for most handle material) but avoid using very course belts for initial shaping, as they can tear out pieces of even the best ivory. I usually never use anything more course than 80 grit, and I leave myself plenty of room in case of a blowout when bandsawing the profile.

How high a grit you hand rub will depend on the specific material, and how good you are at getting a true finish at X grit. 1500 is about the minimum with nice ivory, then buff with white rouge, light pressure, in all directions. Examine your finish under magnification, clean with a good clean soft cotton or microfiber cloth, with a little wd40 or mineral oil to remove any residue, make sure you don't see any lower grit scratches, and decide if you're happy with the finish, if not, take it to 2k, or 3k, or try blue and pink polishing paper before buffing again. I've found in most cases I can hand rub to 1500, then use blue and pink paper then quickly buff and get a great finish that I'm happy with.

Be very careful that you don't have a contaminated buff though, having a loose wheel anywhere near a grinder can contaminate it and you'll create scratches as you're buffing the others.

After you're happy with the finish, clean, and apply Renaissance Wax sparingly, and buff with a good clean soft cotton hand buff/rag by hand, until the streaks disappear.


There's a lot of discussion about long term care of ivories, and I've had mixed results with various methods, it really depends on the ivory. You'll have to do some research on that yourself and decide what seems applicable.
 
Mandt_100606-web-1.jpg
My only experience with ivory was this piece of old but not fossilized walrus and it was one of the easiest materials that I have worked with.
 
That's very nice. I lust for a piece of ivory like that.
 
kuraki said:
That's very nice. I lust for a piece of ivory like that.
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i have one smaller stick and a couple of little tips left and I haven't figured out what to do with them even though I have had them for like 5 years. LOL.
 
Be careful about showing anyone a knife with ivory on it. Government employees will seize it in a second even if you have papers. No one ever has it returned. I will not make any accusations and this is only what I have heard...but from knife makers with many years of experience that I know and trust who exhibit at large West Coast shows. I have legal ivory but in my private collection. Never for sale or even display in a public place. I don't have an opinion about legal killing of elephants for their ivory but I do not trust our government to see the ivory I collected as far back as 1960 even the teeth of whales. I wonder sometimes about my 115 year year old piano with ivory topped keys that I played so much as a child. The way things are going...who knows what comes next? Larry
 
kuraki said:
That's very nice. I lust for a piece of ivory like that.
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It'd be so much easier to get in Canada.... Walrus ivory is legal here. I can order new tusks harvested this past season for $200 per pound. Can't sell them south of the boarder, and even within Canada there is paperwork involved. It can be nice on occasion though.
 
On a lot of my mammoth pieces, I flood the ivory with thin CA after it is sanded to 400 grit. Ilet it sit for a day, sand itb down at 400 again, and flood once more. Then I take it to 800-1000 grit, and buff with matchless white on a clean buff.
 
LARRYZ10 said:
Be careful about showing anyone a knife with ivory on it. Government employees will seize it in a second even if you have papers. No one ever has it returned. I will not make any accusations and this is only what I have heard...
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The legality of ivory can indeed be tricky Larry, but saying "government employees will seize it in a second" is a bit of an interesting statement... Especially when you follow it up by saying you have no personal experience. Hearsay information is notoriously suspect...

To the OP, the best source of information on mammoth ivory (and teeth for that matter) I've found is Mark Knapp, who sells a large amount of the stuff out of his shop here in Fairbanks. He's pretty approachable with those sorts of questions. (That said, Stacy's advice seems excellent to me.)
 
Metalhead0483 said:
The legality of ivory can indeed be tricky Larry, but saying "government employees will seize it in a second" is a bit of an interesting statement... Especially when you follow it up by saying you have no personal experience. Hearsay information is notoriously suspect...

To the OP, the best source of information on mammoth ivory (and teeth for that matter) I've found is Mark Knapp, who sells a large amount of the stuff out of his shop here in Fairbanks. He's pretty approachable with those sorts of questions. (That said, Stacy's advice seems excellent to me.)
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You are absolutely correct about my comments being hearsay but I live in Southern California where weird things happen. I have been cautioned by more than one professional knife maker to not display ivory of any kind at knife shows. You could be right about this information being suspect but let me give an example of the way government can work in California. More than twenty years ago it was alleged that a Kern County farmer had plowed a field and may have run over a Tipton kangaroo rat. The rat was never produced in evidence but a state agency "arrested the mans leased tractor" from the Berchtold Equipment Company in Bakersfield. I saw the tractor with the warrant attached to it on display. The farmer lost his business and was never convicted of endangering an endangered species. Alaska has to be much more reasonable about Walrus ivory than California. I have lived in California since the 1950s and am becoming more paranoid about our state government every day. I hope I am wrong. Larry
 
LARRYZ10 said:
You are absolutely correct about my comments being hearsay but I live in Southern California where weird things happen. I have been cautioned by more than one professional knife maker to not display ivory of any kind at knife shows. You could be right about this information being suspect but let me give an example of the way government can work in California. More than twenty years ago it was alleged that a Kern County farmer had plowed a field and may have run over a Tipton kangaroo rat. The rat was never produced in evidence but a state agency "arrested the mans leased tractor" from the Berchtold Equipment Company in Bakersfield. I saw the tractor with the warrant attached to it on display. The farmer lost his business and was never convicted of endangering an endangered species. Alaska has to be much more reasonable about Walrus ivory than California. I have lived in California since the 1950s and am becoming more paranoid about our state government every day. I hope I am wrong. Larry
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Yes, the situation in California is dire, but very different from the rest of the country, with a few exceptions like NY. Course, it's the same with many things in those places.

AFAIK they've got a total ivory ban now in CA right? Even fossil material? I'd definitely avoid it if I lived there, otherwise, we're all pretty safe to use fossil ivories. Legal, pre-ban Elephant is much trickier now, and my understanding is that no sales across state lines are legal anymore, but you can still sell in your state. This of course is off-topic, as the OP asked about finishing fossil material. Is the OP in CA, did I miss something here?

Forum doesn't seem to show the user's location below their Avatar anymore, at least not for me.
 
I apologize for drifting off topic with my remarks. I use pretty much the same method as Mr. Apelt when I finish ivory and even camel bone. I can only add that one should use a clean buffing wheel or one that has been used for fine white compound only. I did not mean to get political with my rant and am sorry that I went off topic. Larry
 
Question about ivory in general. Is it the same density all the way through? I mean, in mammoth ivory, is an interior section capable of being finished to the same degree in the same fashion as an exterior section?

Mark Knapp has some really reasonably priced interior scale sections that might scratch the ivory itch I've got, if they finish the way I'm hoping.
 
Yes and no Kuraki, Some does and some doesn't. I'd bet that anything that Mark is selling will though. I've had some in the past through a trade and it was too chalky to work well where as other parts of the same chunk of tusk did.

AB 96, the bill here in Kali that outlawed ivory including mammoth ivory (and tooth by the way) does not prohibit possession or ownership of mammoth ivory. I can no longer buy or sell (including trade) it. Kinda a big hit for me as about 1 out of 5 knives I made were mammoth ivory or tooth.
 
kuraki said:
Question about ivory in general. Is it the same density all the way through? I mean, in mammoth ivory, is an interior section capable of being finished to the same degree in the same fashion as an exterior section?

Mark Knapp has some really reasonably priced interior scale sections that might scratch the ivory itch I've got, if they finish the way I'm hoping.
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It does depend on the age, source, and level of decay/mineralization for sure, but if you find some good solid creamy white interior, that's solid, it usually finishes like a dream, if you treat it with care.

Bark can be more fickle, but fossil ivory seems to hold a lofty level of respect because of it's value and rareness, that's incommensurate with it's difficulty to work. Many are so afraid to lose a couple hundred clams, they won't work with it in the first place. Inevitably, you will lose a piece or few, but it's not difficult material to work with or finish. Most of us that use it often, actually prefer it. Like stag, bark is usually worked from the inside out, which is contrary to the typical methodology, but is also tends to dictate it's own form, often, with great success.


Here's one from a few years ago for me; one of my unique damascus patterns, textured anoidized titanium bolsters, liners, and domed pins, deep blue/green mammoth ivory(lots of texture left on the surface, scales are 1/16 thick at most):
blue-slip.jpg
 
I know ivory is relatively easy to work. I have a little pipe holder my grandpa carved from ivory and it's properties in working are part of what made it so desirable in the first place.

I was mostly wondering if interior ivory has the same/similar properties to exterior ivory, or if it was more like the difference between exterior antler and interior pith, for example. Or, like Dave mentioned, if it simply has different mechanical properties than one might expect. Or if fossilized is different from unfossilized, in respect to the interior - exterior properties.

Though, like you said, the risk is great with the cost involved, which is really what drives my question. I don't want to drop a couple hundred dollars on material that simply cannot be finished in the way I expect it to be, because of my ignorance of what it actually is or isn't.

That is a gorgeous pattern by the way.
 
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