Mammouth Ivory, or not?

I don't understand why that is. Pearl is organic also and even more fragile. But, the fact is I like both, I've just never ran into many pearl handled knives.

Dave
 
Well I am no expert on handle materials, but I will say that I have never observed even the slightest bit of shrinkage on any pearl-handled knife I have ever owned. In fact, the only frame-handled or full /exposed tang knives I will buy are those with pearl handles becasue I am confident that I won't be left with an uncomfortable differential between the tang / frame and the shrunken scales - for example - the Bradshaw dagger below:

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I have seen ivory of every kind - mammoth, fossil walrus, elephant skrink and / or crack. The impact of this is diminished in a knife with a fill hidden tang with take-down construction that will allow you cinch-down the butt cap if the ivory moves some. Canadian winters are pretty dry as well. My ivory-handled knives get a once-a-month mineral oil soak over the winter period.

Roger
 
Actually, come to think of it, mine shrinks too, like when I have just come out of a really cold pool, or... Oh, wait a minute... :eek: :footinmou
 
Megalobyte said:
Actually, come to think of it, mine shrinks too, like when I have just come out of a really cold pool, or... Oh, wait a minute... :eek: :footinmou
Click to expand...
Yes shrinkage can be problem, in more ways than one ;)
Ari, you sure you're on the right thread? :eek:
 
I just don't get it, guys. MOP is shell, a soft material compared to mastadon ivory. Am I wrong in thinking Mastadon has lost all orgaic properties after 1,000's of years in the ground. Isn't "fossilized" similiar to stone? Wht would it shrink, esp. compared to MOP?And, if pinned, how could it move? Crack, maybe, but usually on a minor scale. Not defending and knocjing either material, seeking clarification.

Dave
 
Dave, mammoth ivory as not turned to stone, it is like elephant but has been frozen in the ground for at lest 10,000 years. It will shrink and expand with the humidity, it's not a problem if you take care of it, put mineral oil and or wax on it. Now mother of pearl is more stone like and a lot harder than ivory, it will not shrink at all and is very durable. I've seen pearl handled pocket knives over a hundred years old and the pearl looked brand new.
Dave you sure do have an enquiring mind :)

Don
 
We're mixing apples and pears here . . . M-o-P is one material, ivory is another, completely different material. The two are in no way related. M-o-P is "made" differently, works differently, and behaves differently.

Mammoth is noticeably more porous than modern ivory. Scrimshanders tend to work mammoth a lot dryer than ivory because it sucks in the inks. Applying ink often results in a disturbing ripple appearing on the worked surface, which goes away after drying. Both react to changing climatic conditions, they are "live" materials, but they are unpredictable. I have one 20-year-old drop point hunter which has been through deserts, forests and snow and is still unmarked. I have another folder who's handle cracked three weeks after delivery.

One of the problems with modern ivory is that it cannot be transported across international borders (and some US state borders I believe). White mammoth, such as that shown on the knife earlier in this thread, looks like modern ivory. Trying to explain to a customs official the finer differences between mammoth and ivory in an airport, with a plane on the runway, could be an interesting experience. This isn't an issue with the more coloured mammoths.

By the way, there are 9 accepted types of animal ivory . . . African elephant, Indian elephant (slightly pinker), mammoth, walrus tusk, fossilised walrus tusk, warthog tusk, hippo tooth, whale tooth, and narwhal.
 
Boy! I'm learning stuff here. Learning that everything I thought I knew about ivory and pearl is wrong.

Don, I'm going to have to think about why mastadon ivory isn't fossilized. Maybe still not old enough, or the cold keeps it preserved. Interesting.As for my mind, I just think I've learned not to be ashamed to ask questions, even if people think there're silly.

And I would not have guessed pearl is stronger than ivory.

Roger, how long do you "soak" the ivory, and what brand of oil do you use?.

If I missed anyone, sorry.

Dave
 
It is more dimensionally stable. I brought up the whole pearl thing because of it being a high end handle material, suitable for most of the same knives that the ivories are used for.
If you drop the knife, you run a better chance of any ivory surviving the experience intact, more than with pearl......But......pearl will not shrink. It is theorectically possible, but I have never seen it happen.
I have never seen ivory not shrink or swell to some degree, like I said before, it moves. Like Roger said, or intimated, unless it was a full tang with an adjustable nut, presumably for taking apart, I would not use ivory for one of the knives in my collection.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Dave,

Per Jerry Fisk's recommendation, I immerse the handle of the knife in a small tub of mineral oil overnight. I use a generic brand of mineral oil from the local drug store. So far so good. :)

Lots of great info in this thread - my thanks to all. HiltonP - you can be sure I was sweating the delivery of that Bradshaw bowie for the very reason you mentioned. :eek:

Roger
 
30-30... your questions concerning the "mineralization" of mammoth ivory mirrors my lack of understanding of the fossilization process... I, too, don't see how the mammoth ivory and modern elephant ivory are still relatively physically alike... I thought that after being buried for 50,000 years that the ivory would have become mineralized... Apparently, from what I've gathered principlly through reading these forums...mammoth ivory hasn't been exposed long enough to completely undergo the mineralization process... so, it is still very much like live ivory physically, but with the augmentation of whatever medium it was found preserved in...
Otherwise, I'm still pretty :confused:

LOL!!! :D
 
Well, though I am not nearly an expert on fossil ivory, I do sell other types of fossils for a living, and, there are certain types of organic substances that do not fully fossilize, ie. turn to stone.

For example, on fossil shark teeth, while the root does turn into stone, as its organic molecules become replaced with minerals over time, the enamel of the crown stays pretty much like enamel, and does not turn to stone, it just turns a different color from white, as minerals seep into it. I have a feeling that ivory is one such material, that does not fully fossilize, regardless of its age.
 
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