Manix 2 Blade Play: Common?

Dorito Monk said:
So, are there supposed to be two washers per side on all Manix 2's? If so, that would probably explain the blade play. Thanks for the info and opinions, everyone.
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I have never seen one with two per side. All mine, from just about the beginning of production through very recent production, have one per side.
 
Dorito Monk said:
So, are there supposed to be two washers per side on all Manix 2's? If so, that would probably explain the blade play. Thanks for the info and opinions, everyone.
Click to expand...

I've seen more than a handful of Spyderco and other products with more than one washer per side as if to indicate to me that when needed based on determination of tolerances there was an additional washer placed on one side by the factory. Not all knives are straight from the factory though and many of the ones I've seen have been from users so there is no telling what adjustments if any were made by the end line user that bought the knife. I've seen some with two per side, and others with just one per side. My own experience is that these washers are usually very thin compared to most other brands I see and it could be that due to the nature of the material with static that they simply adhere to each other so much that its quite easy to accidentally place two and not know it. My guess is for the knife in this thread that if the owner did put another washer on one side, maybe both that the blade play would be alleviated.

STR
 
My orange one has a wee bit of side to side, not a real life problem but enough to make a knife nut frown. The regular hollow ground version is a true vault.
 
When I first received my XHP Manix, it had a slight amount of play. But after using it for about a month or two and lubing it up with Rem Oil, the play had suddenly vanished. My bet is the CBBL wore in a tiny bit/was greased up and seated itself properly. Maybe someone else has more insight.
 
Orion's Belt said:
Wait, tightening the pivot doesn't decrease side to side play? You should be able to tighten it all the way and the blade still have free motion due to the pivot bushing.
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Almost all of my manix 2 have this problem and tightening doesn't help and the blades won't open/close properly when tightened, disappointing.
 
Handwrecker said:
When I first received my XHP Manix, it had a slight amount of play. But after using it for about a month or two and lubing it up with Rem Oil, the play had suddenly vanished. My bet is the CBBL wore in a tiny bit/was greased up and seated itself properly. Maybe someone else has more insight.
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Funny you mention this. I noticed with my Orange M2, if I put some forward pressure on the cage, the tiny amount of play disappears. So maybe you are indeed on to something with the break-in theory.

In the real world, the play in my blade is sooo minimal that I can't really detect it by sight, but can just barely feel it. It will be interesting to see what direction that play goes with some more use over the next few months.
 
stwesterner said:
Almost all of my manix 2 have this problem and tightening doesn't help and the blades won't open/close properly when tightened, disappointing.
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That's very odd, my experience was the complete opposite. The way the bushing system is designed, you can crank on that pivot all you want and your knife should still be buttery smooth, since those washers aren't putting pressure directly upon the tang, but on the center bushing. That's how my Manix 2 (looked like it) worked when I took it apart and retightened everything. I cranked that sucker down REAL hard at the pivot, and it did not make the blade any harder to open or change anything really, unlike on a Military for example.

Regardless, I'm not Spyderco engineer, and I'm sorry to hear you've had problems with your Manix 2s.
 
Billy516 said:
Funny you mention this. I noticed with my Orange M2, if I put some forward pressure on the cage, the tiny amount of play disappears. So maybe you are indeed on to something with the break-in theory.
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I noticed the same thing. I was going to send it back, but I think I'll give it some time. I would hate to be without it.
 
eloreno said:
I noticed the same thing. I was going to send it back, but I think I'll give it some time. I would hate to be without it.
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x3. Holding the ball bearing/cage forward reduces the slight blade play to zero.


Still VERY impressed with the knife.
 
STR said:
I've seen more than a handful of Spyderco and other products with more than one washer per side as if to indicate to me that when needed based on determination of tolerances there was an additional washer placed on one side by the factory.
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An extra washer to make a tolerance correction would be a relatively massive adjustment and indicate a fairly serious QC issue between individual pieces in a production manufacturing environment.

I just can't imagine assemblers tossing in an extra washer here and there because tolerances of the individual pieces are that far off.
 
I think the design calls for x amount of space to be taken up using washers and the makers use whatever is at hand to make up that space. If a combination of 2 washers works best, they use that. I don't think the makers produce custom washers to perfectly fit every design; they probably use available parts.
 
Firebat said:
An extra washer to make a tolerance correction would be a relatively massive adjustment and indicate a fairly serious QC issue between individual pieces in a production manufacturing environment.

I just can't imagine assemblers tossing in an extra washer here and there because tolerances of the individual pieces are that far off.
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Its not like the washers are .030 thick! We are talking .002 thickness on some of these washers. Thats not much of an adjustment at all really. You can see that kind of plus or minus variance from one batch of steel to the next. I could order a .090 thickness of sheet steel or titanium and find once it is here that it actually measures .088 or .091 as an example but was rounded off as to what it is in some cases. Some will tell you exactly what it is but others do not. You find that out on your own and often times one end of the sheet could be slightly different than the other. Unless its surface ground to be uniform thickness throughout you can see variances such at this quite readily in anything you buy in the way of raw materials. Washers are a quick and easy way to make up for variances in rocker arm thickness and so on.

STR
 
STR said:
You can see that kind of plus or minus variance from one batch of steel to the next. I could order a .090 thickness of sheet steel or titanium and find once it is here that it actually measures .088 or .091 as an example but was rounded off as to what it is in some cases.
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For example(from McMaster-Carr):

Material
Multipurpose Air-Hardened A2 Tool Steel
Alloy
A2
Finish/Coating
Ground
Shape
Sheets, Bars, and Strips
Sheets, Bars, and Strips Type
Plain
Thickness
1/8"
Thickness Tolerance
+.015"
Length
36"
Length Tolerance
+1/2"
Width
3"
Width Tolerance
+.015"
 
Its that way for finished products too at times. Everything has a plus or minus variance that I use. I mean I just ordered stand off spacers for the rear and shoulder stop pins for my hand made folders in various styles a few months ago. While they are all ordered under the same order number and came in the same bag and are sold as .133 for height there is a plus or minus to these also. Some may be .131, others .134 as an example. I don't just reach in and grab two to use without measuring them even if they are all the same thing. I try to match two of the same measurement with each other and match those to a shoulder stop pin and then hopefully by the time I am dealing with the blade thickness and a washer on each side I am within my pref range for the spacing of the pivot to be very close to that same measurement but lets say for arguments sake that my blade and two washers measure .129 instead of .133 and I need to make up for that diff. The easiest way to do that is to use different washers to space the pivot properly. In the end you have nothing more than a tool (the washer) to help bring things into tolerance to make your product more precise. Its not the other way around.
STR
 
STR,

Coming from a machining background, I completely understand tolerances. Some people don't understand that with smaller tolerances, price must go up. Just ask Chris Reeve!

Production knife companies are operating on a game of percentages. Odds are MOST of the knifes will be more than acceptable, and a few will not be. The idea is to not let those go out the door, but occasionally they do. It's much cheaper to fix those knives on a per case basis than to shrink all your tolerances down to nothing.

Any reputable company will make those types of issues right. Spyderco is one of those.

Edit: Just re-read this and wanted to clarify that the first paragraph is the only thing directed at STR. I'm sure you know this stuff. Others struggle to understand it sometimes.
 
My 2 Sage Manix 2's have no perceptible blade play. So from my experience it wouldn't be normal. I wouldn't hesitate to send it back if it is bothering you. Depending on how noticeable the movement was I know that it would bother me.
 
Thanks to everyone for all the replies and advice. :thumbup:

I think I'm going to either keep them and just live with the blade play or, if it keeps getting worse and starts to bother me, sell the two orange sprints and stick with my 154CM model.

I've heard a few instances of people having issues (lockup issues, blade centering, or uneven grind issues) with Spyderco knives, sending them in to have them repaired, and getting them back without anything being done about it. For me, it's not worth a) the risk of having them both confiscated or charged at the border, or b) the shipping charges, to have the knives come back with a note about how they're within specifications or something like that.
 
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