Man's best friend versus man's responsibilities

JC in SC

JC in SC

Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
1,050
Ok, I realize this is way off topic and totally unrelated to anything W&SS; however, this is where I hang out most of the time, so I'm eager to gain some perspective from like minded souls.

Backstory. Two years ago, we purchased (rescued) a 2 year old Chihuahua from a low income family with 3 or 4 children under the age of 5. It appeared that the mother purchased what is now our dog with the hope of breeding her continuously for income. After her first litter of 1 puppy, I think the woman realized that wasn't going to provide much income and decided to sell her. She had purchased our dog from someone else within the past year, so in 2 years, our dog had 3 different owners including us. When we picked her up, she had barbeque sauce on her face, presumably because the woman's kids carried her around, etc. Peanut as we named her, adjusted well and quickly to our home. We made many not so great decisions along the way such as letting her sleep with us. I'd say that 99% of the time, she is a perfect dog. The only time she goes in the house is if there is some sort of problem such as we've been gone too long, thunderstorm, etc.

Fast forward to now. We have a little girl that turned 14 weeks old this past Friday. Peanut is obviously jealous of her, but has tolerated her presence very well. My wife has become aggravated with Peanut though because she'll try to lay anything that is the baby's if that something is left unattended and in a place where she can lay on it. We've tried to give her a lot of attention in spite of the obvious distraction of having a new baby in the house, but she still tries to get extra attention to the point of driving us crazy. None of that has really been an issue so far though. Last night however, things got scary. We were all sitting around unwinding after a long day at work for my wife and a long day of Daddy Daycare for me. Peanut was in her usual perch, asleep on the back of one of our couches, with my wife sitting on the other end and our little girl asleep on a pillow in the middle. We heard an unusual noise, which sounded like it came from the back of the house, so I got up to investigate. I walked through the house and saw nothing that should have made such as noise, so I opened the back door. Big mistake. The sound of the back door closing frightened Peanut causing her to bark loudly, whereby waking a sleeping baby. The worst was yet to come. Presumably unaware that our little girl was laying below her, Peanut jumped down to see what was going on the back of the house, stepping on (we think) our little girl's face and chest in the process. Note that Peanut is a heavy little Chihuahua at 14 lbs. I was out of the room, so I didn't see it, but my wife's scream brought me running. Our little girl began screaming, louder than she has ever before. She continued on and off for almost 45 minutes. We debated about taking her to the emergency room, but after my wife, who is a nurse, consulted with the Pediatrician and my mother, who is a nurse, we decided to just watch her closely through the evening. I got up almost every hour to check on her through the night and this morning she is just like normal. Our suspicion is that the dog barking scared her enough to wake her and then the dog jumping on or near her REALLY scared her.

The question becomes what to do with our dog. On one hand, I feel like the most selfish person because I love our dog and don't want to see her passed off to yet another family. On the other hand, I feel like I need to do what is best for our family, our little girl in particular, and put my feelings aside. Like I said, she is great 99% of the time, but last night was a big eye opener (on a number of levels). I work during the week, so my wife has to deal with her the most. She sheds so much that her hair is everywhere, which has begun to annoy my wife more and more. Our schedules are extremely hectic and in hindsight, we probably should have never bought Peanut in the first place, though things have gotten much more hectic since we got her. I just kind of feel guilty punishing her (i.e. getting rid of her) for a situation that isn't her fault. I guess I just don't know what to do. Anyone have any similar experiences?
 
i lovemy dogs too. yours came in on a stacked deck.her reality basis is your attention.if you are able fiscally send for a dog whisperer .l.a. has one & we have one in austin.
 
Accidents happen.
YOU left your kid where the dog could step on it,if that's what happened.
If your dog is not showing any aggression to your kid I don't see the problem.

Anytime you introduce a new animal including a baby you need to take precautions during the adjustment period.
Buy a crate and crate the dog when you can't properly supervise it.

Here's a trick.
It's called "Positive Association".
Hold your baby and stroke it while it's happy and awake and call your dog and feed it and pet it at the same time.
You want both to have positive experiences around each other.
Later you will most likely need to remind your dog the baby is higher in pack rank then the dog.
A little shake by the neck the first time the dog tries to establish rank will end the problem.
But you need to be there,so dogs are not left alone with babies.
That's what crates are for.
 
DennisStrickland said:
i lovemy dogs too. yours came in on a stacked deck.her reality basis is your attention.if you are able fiscally send for a dog whisperer .l.a. has one & we have one in austin.
Click to expand...

I use to charge 500.00 for the advise I just gave for free.
He could send me a check if that will make my advice worth more.:D
 
InfidelShootist said:
Accidents happen.
YOU left your kid where the dog could step on it,if that's what happened.
If your dog is not showing any aggression to your kid I don't see the problem.

Anytime you introduce a new animal including a baby you need to take precautions during the adjustment period.
Buy a crate and crate the dog when you can't properly supervise it.

Here's a trick.
It's called "Positive Association".
Hold your baby and stroke it while it's happy and awake and call your dog and feed it and pet it at the same time.
You want both to have positive experiences around each other.
Later you will most likely need to remind your dog the baby is higher in pack rank then the dog.
A little shake by the neck the first time the dog tries to establish rank will end the problem.
But you need to be there,so dogs are not left alone with babies.
That's what crates are for.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I would like to note that the baby wasn't left unattended around the dog. My wife was sitting right beside them. Peanut has always shown extreme caution when moving anywhere near the baby, sometimes taking round about routes even when there is plenty of room to pass closer to the baby. I think we've just gotten slack since she has been so cautious. We've talked about getting her a crate and I've heard that dogs grow to love them/consider them their private space. I guess the biggest thing is that I need to get over my feelings of guilt in regards to putting her in crate at night, etc. Thanks for the advice. Any recommendations on crates or will anything of reasonable size work?
 
JC in SC said:
We've talked about getting her a crate and I've heard that dogs grow to love them/consider them their private space. I guess the biggest thing is that I need to get over my feelings of guilt in regards to putting her in crate at night, etc. Thanks for the advice. Any recommendations on crates or will anything of reasonable size work?
Click to expand...

*If* Peanut takes to the crate, your feelings will go away on this: she'll love it, and you'll even see a slightly different dog during thunderstorms.

That said, some dogs don't take to crates, so be ready if she refuses to get near the thing. Just be patient, put treats in their for her, and then when she starts going in by herself, put a treat through the door for her as a way of rewarding her for going in. She needs to associate the crate with a place of reward.

Note that dogs ain't stupid, and she's going to realize the crate is another change in her life caused by the baby.

So be patient.

Size-wise, take her to the store with you. Get a crate that she can (a) turn around in (b) and lay down in. And not much bigger. Snug is better than roomy to a dog.
 
Leave the door off the crate or tie the door open and keep toys and treats in it to get a positive association for a while.
When you do add the door and lock the dog in,only lock him in a few minutes at a time at first and give a food reward when you release him."However,don't get him too crazy.A good boy a pat and a treat is enough".
Then take him outside.
Hot-dogs are good treats.Just use tiny pieces.
When he goes in the crate don't make a big deal about it and no good-byes.
If you don't make a big deal about it he won't either.

As far as rewards go,some only need praise,some like food,others don't care for food but live for Frisbee or ball or tug of war.
When I was training explosive and narcotic detection dogs I found out what the dog liked and set up training around that reward.Training by the book instead of by the dog is for beginners.

You need a small but not too small crate to get the den effect.
Any pet store will have them.
The plastic airline crates are better then the wire cages.
If you get a wire cage put a sheet over it.
 
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InfidelShootist nailed it, stuff happens -

The dog jumping down is performing a behavior that is perfectly common and in many cases may even be encouraged. It would be just plain weird to trip on a hedonic relevance kinda thing. The dog jumped down and left footprints on your newspaper – not so bad, dog jumps down and leaves footprints on your new book – slightly pissed, dog jumps down and leaves footprints on your child's face – major drama. It's the same behavior but because it costs you more the dog gets to be more guilty. That's flawed. The only way the dog is at fault would be if all instances of jumping down and going to see wassup were verboten regardless of any costs. I suspect that isn't the case here.

I'd add to what InfidelShootist said by saying that Peanut “try[ing] to lay anything that is the baby's” is a different can of worms. You must be firm about that. In fact, I'd be deliberately leaving bait clothing items and reprimanding the dog caught in the act. You've got a direct link here between that behavior and what I wrote about dominance / leadership / and taking possession in a dog thread here a few days ago. Peanut must learn not to do that. Simply avoiding the issue by removing the objects isn't going to instill the required learning. There must be nothing of that child's Peanut can take dominance over. You need to arrive at a point at which the dog will ignore the lure. The lure belongs to a higher rank than Peanut is entitled is the penny that needs to drop. This is the path to trust when unobserved.

Other than that as InfidelShootist said.
 
Simple... #1 Dont feel guilty about ANY decisions you've made in the past #2 Go with your gut feeling, and do whatever you want, all the time...no regrets, just be, and have no worries
 
As an animal (especially cats) lover, I feel your pain and I don't even have kids yet. My fiance is already making plans of sticking my indoor cat outside when we have our first little one. Its not the pets fault. Its one thing if peanut was growling or acting offensively to your new baby (congrats by the way :)), but since she seems mild mannered and behaved, I would go with the crate idea.
 
What Infidel said. Dogs like caves or dens where they can hide out, as long as it is their decision. Take your time with it. The dog isn't showing any aggression, nor is it chewing up the baby's stuff. So far, so good.

HOWEVER, you mentioned :"my wife has to deal with her the most. She sheds so much that her hair is everywhere, which has begun to annoy my wife more and more."

Senior Management isn't so keen on finding behavioral alternatives, it seems.

"When Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy."

Get ready to accept a Senior Management Mandate.

Best wishes.


Kis
 
Okay, the accident was an accident and not intentional- you are emotionally tied up in it because it's your first baby- I spent most of a YEAR with our first child waking up 3 to 5 times a night checking to see if Leif was still breathing. (Now I just wake up when Tory does the 'danger' bark and check my revolver and the perimeter. So I'm obviously not paranoid.)

The dog isn't being aggressive, what you need is to give poocher a definite pack structure place and some structured playtime. a walk with you after mommy gets home, some extra liver treats here and there, and a nice new bed under your desk or something.

Very, very soon, that dog is going to be your baby alarm system.
 
I do not think that because of one mistake by your dog, that usealy is very cautious around the child, should be passed on to somebody else. fix the problem, not run away from it. THis seems like a simple oops, and with an insdie dog, you putting the child where she could jump on the child, is your fault. You should not set the dog up to fail.
 
Im with the idea that it just happened with your pup being a pup. It sound like your pup is adj to the idea she is not the only baby in the house. As you did say she is walking around the baby. That she jumped on your baby it was a big mistake. Heck i steped on my niece foot last week cause i didnt see her laying on the floor behind the sofa.. Im with Koyote your dog would be your baby best friend in a year. I had a Doberman for a pup. When my sis had a baby and she brought her home, he came running to check the baby out. Scared my mom half to death thinking he is going to attack. All he wanted to do was check her out. She yelled at him so he didnt come close to my niece but he always always watched her. Would be there first if she cried. One time he even tried to get my sis away from her thinking my sis was the reason she cried. He was watching over her as dogs do no one got upset with him ever again. I do think everyone would adj well, Just remember a dog is a dog and they think diffrent then you and I do.

Sasha
 
That crate is great advice. About the only really good decision we made with our two dogs. Ours are never aggressive with humans, but they do get into their little tiffs now and again. Sending them to their crates always settles them down. The interesting thing is that don't even have negative experiences with the crate when they are sent there. They think of it is a secure place that is their own. Neither ever even trys to go into the other's crate. They know which was is their own.

Getting them used to sleeping in the crate is a first necessary step. When the dog is getting out of hand with company or other distractions, it is good to be able to place them there.

Like others have said, the incident with your child was a simple mistake. Mine are often doing comical things like running into a wall because they are looking at the other one. It wasn't aggression, just a mistake. P.S. as a parent you'll have plenty of emergencies of that type. Think of this incident as training for the next twenty years.
 
Kismet said:
What Infidel said. Dogs like caves or dens where they can hide out, as long as it is their decision. Take your time with it. The dog isn't showing any aggression, nor is it chewing up the baby's stuff. So far, so good.

HOWEVER, you mentioned :"my wife has to deal with her the most. She sheds so much that her hair is everywhere, which has begun to annoy my wife more and more."

Senior Management isn't so keen on finding behavioral alternatives, it seems.

"When Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy."

Get ready to accept a Senior Management Mandate.

Best wishes.


Kis
Click to expand...

Tell senior management a little vacuuming and loyalty is a small price to pay for an early warning fire,carbon monoxide and burglar/intruder alarm.
Most dogs would give their lives to protect their pack.
They deserve a little respect.
 
You know, when our first child was about 2 months old, we were getting ready to leave the house one night to go visit my parents, and as we were getting toward the front door, we set her carrier down (with her in it) by the kitchen table as we checked for keys, etc.

A humongous anthropology text took a dive off the table and smashed into her forehead. She screamed. She had a small dent in her forehead. We went to the hospital.

Burned that damn textbook as soon as we got home!!







Kidding about burning it. And my daughter was fine. Stuff happens. If it wasn't deliberate, and it didn't cause anything but a scare, let it go and be more careful -- i.e., "don't set her down underneath stuff that can fall on her" was my first big child protection lesson.
 
You guys (and gals) are awesome:D I know we set Peanut up, unintentionally, to fail. Even though it wasn't really her fault, the emotion surrounding the situation causes drastic thoughts to come to mind. I was secretly looking for moral support that I'm not a selfish bastid for not wanting to part with her. Needless to say, I'll be picking up a crate for her ASAP, despite my aprehension about doing so thus far. Thanks for all the advice and words of encouragement:thumbup:
 
As a side note, get the cage type of crate and not the doggy carrier. Many dogs really don't like the confined space of a carrier where they will be fine with a crate that they can see through easily enough. It helps with their sense of security.
 
Hey JC,

I can very much relate to your situation.

I have a pug-chihuahua cross that my wife and I inherited while my wife was pregnant with our first child. The dog became very possessive and protective of my wife and I in the months before baby came.

The dog even has the bad habit of giving what I call warning-shot non-bites to people in certain situations.

When baby did come, the dog was disoriented by our son's presence, and the fact he got pretty much all of our attention most of the time.

Fast forward 2 and a half years and the dog and my son get along fine. My son is currently a toddler that is outright in love with our dog.

For us, we definitely learned we could NOT have the dog up on the same couch as our son for the longest time. Now, while the risk of the dog snapping at our son appears really, really low, we STILL keep an eye on them if they're on the couch together.

The dog has never given our son a warning shot, but he has growled a bit at him (another bad chihuahua trait I think he exhibits). He growls often at people. He's a cranky SOB.

Our main thing is we do try to give the dog some attention, even for a few minutes, each day. He does also get two good walks (15-30 minutes each time) a day. We also splurge on having a person "walk" the dog twice a week. In practice that means the dog gets to spend time with other dogs running around for 2 hours each time. After that he's exhausted and happy.

We don't crate him. In fact, he sleeps in our bed!

I hope this info helps.

Good luck with the baby (and the dog!).

Matt

PS: if you ever want advice or want to rant about the pressures of dog-owning and parenting, drop me a PM/email.

PPS: Oh, and a friend of mine's mom slipped and fell down the stairs while carrying him in her arms as a baby. He was fine, and would become one of the smartest, toughest guys I know. Things happen in life--especially the life of parents!
 
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