Mantis Knives. Some brief comments and pics

I doubt seriously if we'll have to worry about it being done right. There are plenty of flat spots to set up the blade for it to sit correctly perpendicular to the test device. Trust me the guy I sent it to does this all the time. Probably everyday. He has been there before.

STR
 
thanx for the review Steve....
1st Doc Snubnose gave a positive review on another forum, now you give it the thumbs up! :eek:
My interest is way piqued after reading this.....even though the "mall ninja" tactikewl styling is present IMO....and the big round opening hole that is on the Karambit... :eek: ;)
The only other review i've heard about 420HC steel is from reading a review on Condor knives (i believe it was a bolo/machete) by Horndog on another manufacturer's forum.....and i do recall positive comments on the toughness/edge retention of the Condor's with chopping.... any idea what % Carbon is in this steel?
Seems like everyone's upping the ante with quality knives at cheaper prices....
I bought a Kabar $19 Dozier folder after I read one of your earlier posts regarding this knife....and I was very impressed with it! :thumbup:

edit just saw Joe's Steel FAQ's....420HC is lumped in the 440A and 12c27 category....
 
Well, I said I'd get back to you guys about the Rockwell testing.

Both the T5 and the HawkBill Karambit came back at 56 RC. So my guess was off a bit. Not sure thats the most impressive hardness I've seen on productions in stainless to be honest. Yes it was a calibrated machine. I asked.

One other thing has become apparent to me. There are a few sharp areas on these. Sharp edges on the body of them I mean where there is no bevel on the corners. I beveled the T5 to suit me. Its a noticed difference in the hand now. I did think it cut fairly well even at that hardness so I'll probably keep that one as a beater. I do like it. The Karambit Tanto and Hawkbill bill end up with my son. I don't expect either to last long with him.

One other thing was noted that I hesitate to mention because if I had the tool to adjust the pivot I may be able to fix it. When the T5 arrived here the blade was centered when closed.

After the hemp cutting (again it was only 50 cut off pieces) the blade is no longer centered but leans toward the non lock side so far its almost dragging the metal now. I am currently searching for a way to adjust this pivot since some lateral movement was also noted after the cuts.

These are not all bad I guess. For the money and even if they are made in China I think they still stand out as a pretty decent choice among most of the Chinese products and a good many USA made ones I've handled. At this point I do find myself wondering why the two blades of supposedly different steel Rockwell out so soft though. Hopefully if the owner of Mantis knives sees this he'll make note of it and check it out.

STR
 
Thank you for the honest review, and the extra step of rockwell testing. If it is BG42 it is wasted at such low RC's. To be honest, when I saw that you had bought one for yourself I knew we would get a better review of it than usual. Joe
 
....After the hemp cutting (again it was only 50 cut off pieces) the blade is no longer centered but leans toward the non lock side so far its almost dragging the metal now. I am currently searching for a way to adjust this pivot since some lateral movement was also noted after the cuts.

STR

You should be able to do it with either hemostats or e-clip pliers. Barring that, make up a wrench with ss pins, and a pot of epoxy.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
After reading this thread and being in the market for a karambit, I ended up ordering one of the Mantis MK1's. For less than 30 bucks it is well built and gives me a chance to decide on this karambit thing before I drop coin on a Emerson folder or some custom fixed blade.
The frame lock on mine locks up perfectly and the blade is centered. With the lock released there is just a touch of lateral blade pay. All in all for the price it is a nice piece of kit.

As side note how does the Emerson karambit folder compare size wise to the Mantis?
 
Well, I said I'd get back to you guys about the Rockwell testing.

Both the T5 and the HawkBill Karambit came back at 56 RC. So my guess was off a bit. Not sure thats the most impressive hardness I've seen on productions in stainless to be honest. Yes it was a calibrated machine. I asked.

One other thing has become apparent to me. There are a few sharp areas on these. Sharp edges on the body of them I mean where there is no bevel on the corners. I beveled the T5 to suit me. Its a noticed difference in the hand now. I did think it cut fairly well even at that hardness so I'll probably keep that one as a beater. I do like it. The Karambit Tanto and Hawkbill bill end up with my son. I don't expect either to last long with him.

One other thing was noted that I hesitate to mention because if I had the tool to adjust the pivot I may be able to fix it. When the T5 arrived here the blade was centered when closed.

After the hemp cutting (again it was only 50 cut off pieces) the blade is no longer centered but leans toward the non lock side so far its almost dragging the metal now. I am currently searching for a way to adjust this pivot since some lateral movement was also noted after the cuts.

These are not all bad I guess. For the money and made in China I think they still stand out as a pretty decent choice among most of the Chinese products I've handled. At this point I do find myself wondering why the two blades of supposedly different steel Rockwell out so soft though. Hopefully if the owner of Mantis knives sees this he'll make note of it and check it out.

STR

Hi STR,
thanks for the info and for the review. I think the RC testing shows that all these (Mantis) knives are made of the same steel (and presumably not very good one).
(in addition it seems like "false advertising" to me - in Czech Republic it's illegal (I don't know about situation in USA though); not the kind of business manners I'd like to support :thumbdn:)


I'd still take a Byrd - from what I can tell Byrds surpass these in every aspect...
 
I'd have to rank the Byrds up there first also. I've been impressed with them, but I'd seen a few bad ones also that required some QC calls. I'm still a firm believer that you get what you pay for. Overall though I think these Karambits compare favorably with the higher dollar ones and in all honesty for what those are designed to do it need not be the best latest and greatest super steel anyway. The Emerson K is a little wider in the hand and slightly longer as I recall.

STR
 
After reading this thread and being in the market for a karambit, I ended up ordering one of the Mantis MK1's. For less than 30 bucks it is well built and gives me a chance to decide on this karambit thing before I drop coin on a Emerson folder or some custom fixed blade.
The frame lock on mine locks up perfectly and the blade is centered. With the lock released there is just a touch of lateral blade pay. All in all for the price it is a nice piece of kit.

As side note how does the Emerson karambit folder compare size wise to the Mantis?

Roughly the same size, the handle is close in size but the mantis points forward in a saber grip. whereas the emerson's handle is less curved. The emerson's blade is is slightly larger. I am carrying the Mantis daily now to replace my Emerson karambit (because i don't want to lose the emerson). i put a zip-tie on the first hole and it waves open. i like the lock a lot, but the detent is too gentle and i'm worried the blade will open accidentally and rip my pocket or leg open. If i could tighten the pivot screw it wouldn't be a problem.
 
For what it's worth.

Knifecenter's description of the T5 lists the knife (and handles) as 420J2.

$35 bucks.

Buymantisknives has the T5 listed as BG42.

$40 bucks.

"The Edge you've Been Preying For"
 
Regardless of the steel type being BG-42 or not, the relative performance against the 52100 custom speaks strongly for its cost/performance ratio. If you do a simple soak in salt water you can tell if it is BG-42 vs 420J2 because 420J2 is extremely corrosion resistant and the high carbon steels will spot pit much quicker in comparison. But that is a fairly destructive test.

-Cliff
 
Regardless of the steel type being BG-42 or not, the relative performance against the 52100 custom speaks strongly for its cost/performance ratio. If you do a simple soak in salt water you can tell if it is BG-42 vs 420J2 because 420J2 is extremely corrosion resistant and the high carbon steels will spot pit much quicker in comparison. But that is a fairly destructive test.

-Cliff

Mr. Stamp

I've read your extensive comments regarding the lack of optimal performance in mass produced 'specialty steel knives' due to non-optimized edge geometry (eg ZDP mini Cyclone thread).

Clearly in this case the less expensive (suspected) and softer (confirmed by STR report) steel seems to be giving the BG42 custom a run for the money.

Can the unexpected performance then be solely attributed to edge geometry?

Am I missing other variables?
 
Cliff I saw your question right after you posted it but I had to wait to get the knives back from the Rockwell tester I sent them to before I could answer it. Both knives just arrived back here to me a few minutes ago.

Edge measureements taken just above the bevel on each knife indicate the following.

Mantis. .025 thickness in back, .023 middle and tip this taken right above the bevel at the junction of where the primary grind and bevel start.

Ray's 52100 Scagel repro measures .013 in back, .015 in the middle and .017 at the very tip. Measured the same way using my best digital caliper.

STR
 
STR, aren't those results counter intuitive ?

I would have expected the Mantis to have a thinner edge as to explain away the performance you experienced.
A 'lower grade' steel, running at lower RC values, a thicker edge and still a competitive showing by Mantis.

How would you explain your real world use test results? Is there a natural diference in the 'agresiveness' of the edges between the two metals?

I'm reading your cut tests as giving a similar performance. Would that be a fair conclusion?

Have I asked too many questions? :)
 
I can't really argue with the little knife's showing here. I don't know what you mean by counter intuitive. I called it just as it came about. The knife isn't half bad regardless of the blade steel, particularly when you take into account the money it costs. For perspective, I have several other much higher dollar knives currently in the same size range all with what appear to be edges that should outperform this knife but they don't just blow it right out of the water. And honestly some of them get blown out of the water by this cheap knife.

I've noted that the T5 slices better in my pine block than any of my Leeks for example, two of which are quite expensive and thinner. Why? Can't say for sure. This T5 is hollow ground and those are too, but the T5 offers a bit more leverage on the handle. It also cuts through the hemp better than the Leeks do for some reason. Go figure. I suspect the T5 has a finer more conducive push cutting edge than any of those since the Leeks are all factory fresh but can't make certain of that until I resharpen those also. I can tell you that this knife didn't slice the pine block this well until I took the Edge Pro to it.

Honestly I am quite happy with the T5. The K-bits are ok but won't see much use from me. In fact two of them are heading out to my son tomorrow in the mail.
I think for the money, regardless of what the blade steel is in this knife that the T5 is worth every penny, does a good job on several materials and overall isn't far behind the other higher quality China made and lesser expensive USA made products being offered by Spyderco in the Byrd line and Kershaw in the Vapor, Storm and others of that price range.

Of note, the T5 had a lot of sharp edges NIB, all of which I have beveled down. I was able to tighten the pivot and recenter the blade also once I got it back today.

Is it my favorite knife? No. Never will be but if you are looking for a cheap beater, or tool box frame locking knife look no further. This is a good one for that kind of job, or perhaps a tackle box.

Personally, I would rather have a pocket clip than the wheel thing for the karabiner but for what I've spent here I'll deal with it. I suspect after taking the pivot screws off that the heads of these could break easily but they took quite a bit of torque to tighten it up so in normal use they may hold up better than it appears. Again, for the money its on track I think.

STR
 
I don't know what you mean by counter intuitive either.

The opposite of what would be expected given the properties of the knife (steel, hardness, geometry).

Thanks for the information on the geometry, decent for that price.

-Cliff
 
Ok well in that case yes. :D

For what its worth, once I put an Edge Pro 15` angle on the edge it turned things around just as I thought it would. However, the Edge Pro does show that you can take even a cheapy blade and make it perform big if nothing else comes out of this review.

STR
 
However, the Edge Pro does show that you can take even a cheapy blade and make it perform big if nothing else comes out of this review.

That is the plain and utter truth.

I'll agree to that.

It might roll and chip easier than a better steel, but I've taken my share of cheap knives to scary sharp edges on the EdgePro.

-j
 
Yep. The Edge Pro rules IMO.

One other thing I forgot to mention that I made note of about all the Mantis knives I've had the chance to play with so far. Everyone of them has this same built in "lock stabalizer" in the pivot ring that effectively prevents the accidental hyper extending the lock out the wrong way to lose spring in it. Not something you normally see except on Striders, and a few customs, and maybe a few of my knives and others that have pocket clips mounted so as to double duty in this way also.

STR
 
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