Manufacturing flaw???

D

dvcavall

Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
38
Folks,
I just received my first BUSSE, a Badger Attack-E. I love the knife already, but one aspect bothers me, and I want to know if it is intended and a non-issue, or something to be concerned with? On my piece, the scales are between 1/8" and 1/16th" smaller than the tang, so there is a steel ridge in contact with the hand all around the grip! I don't claim to be a knifemaker, but I have made a few, and have seen many more made by others. It has been a given (other than art knives made for looking and not using) that the tang and handle scales should be ground even so that there are no ridges to cause discomfort or wear to ones skin with heavy use. Since BUSSE applies the crinkle finish to the tang as well, obviously the scales can not be ground flush on the knife, but to me, all that means is that a little more time and care is needed. Usually, most makers will trial fit the scales, gind them to the tang, THEN send the knife out for what ever treatment is desire. The knives and scales are numbered so they match up. Since that may not be posssible with BUSSE's production process, all it means to me is that a little more time and care should be taken in fitting the scales to the finished blade!

Am I wrong here? Is mine an exception?? If not, does it concern others and is it a porblem??? What if anything can be done????
 
It's not a flaw, it's a design.

I just checked my BA/E, NO/E and SH/E and all display the trait you describe. I wouldn't call it an 1/8th inch, but it is a few thousands and plainly noticeable. I never viewed this as a design flaw, but merely a design. The Satin Jack, which employs a different final assembly process, is more flush.

As to whether or not you like this design, I could not tell you, but yours are normal, at least compared to mine and ones I have seen.
 
My only Busse is Badger Attack E and the tang/scales look like you described, but I don' t think this as a problem. I have wrapped the handle with parachute cord which gives an excellent grip anyway.I like the knife better this way.
 
Call up the shop. I believe they will skin the tang down even with the micarta if you ask nicely;)
 
Well, at least I'm happy to know it's "standard" on the E models. Since I know many of you use your knives extensively, it must not be the problem it appears to be. I still believe the nicely designed "Ergo" grip would be much better if there wasn't a ridge. Having the scales and tang flush only makes sense to me?

Does anyone know if you can buy the handle slab material and rivets from BUSSE? What might the cost be? I can afford to take the time more than they can. Besides, I'd rather fit the micarta than grind the tang? Assuming the slabs are not epoxied and can be removed, I wouldn't mind adding a few spacers to make the grip a little wider and grind and sand them flush with the tang.
 
I wouldn't call it a "design" flaw, because technically they didn't design the tang to be larger than the scales. It is, however (IMHO), a manufacturing flaw.

During the transition between the SH models and the E models (or sometime around there), Busse stopped grinding the tang flush with the micarta scales. Whether this was to reduce manufacturing cost, increase corrosion resistance around the handles, or what, it did happen.

The problem with not grinding the tang flush with the scales is that you don't always (maybe even rarely) have the tang flush with the scales. Some did, however. I got one of these...a SH2E.

Starting around the Blade Show, Busse started grinding the tang flush with the scales again (and grinding the crinkle-coat off the spine as well). When I sent my SH2E in for a modification on the handle, they ground the tang perfectly flush to the new scales. When I asked them if all the new Busses would have their tangs ground flush, I was told that only the ones that needed it would, as some would naturally be flush, by chance.

I would say that the Busse shop would grind the tang flush for you. I don't know about cost, however. If I were you, I'd call the shop.

BTW, you won't be able to remove those handle scales...not without destroying them that is.
 
It's not a manufacturing flaw but a manufacturing decision. My SH II has the tang grinded flush with the scales which removed the coating from the tang. Some people like myself do not like the exposed tang look. My guess is that enough people complained about it that the tang is normally not grinded flush with the scales. The SJ CG has the tang grinded flush to the scales. To spend the time to fit the scales to the tang without grinding the tang would probably increase the cost. Is getting a better fit worth the extra cost? Busse are made to be used.
 
I have no idea what the BUSSE production process is, but it seems a little improvement may be possible. To begin, you shouldn't have to grind the tang to the scales! You should grind the scales to the tang! You grind the softer micarta to the hard steel, not the other way around!!! My guess is that BUSSE has the scales "pre-ground" to shape using some template. Unfortunately, either the tang deminsions vary or the template isn't very accurate? If they started with a micarta blank that was slightly dimensionally larger than the outside limit of the tang, you would simply attach one side with pins, score around the tang, grind to the score line, and repeat on the other side. Done. From what I'm hearing, "grinding the tang", my guess is that some supplier provides the scales preground and they just grab two and slap them on. Unfortunately, this would be fine if dimensions of the scales and tangs were held to tighter tolerances, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Personally, I would prefer to have the scales slighty larger than the tang, rather the other way around. That way if it doesn't feel good to the user, it is a simple job to grind down the micarta with a file and sand paper! Grinding hardened steel seems a bit drastic.
 
This has been brought up in the past a couple of times.
IIRC the micarta scales are manufatured to a certain size and the tangs to another.
It would be impossible to grind the scales to fit after the coating has been applied without grinding the coating off.
And with the coating on the blade it would be impossible to know which knife went with which set of
scales if they were premarked.
IIRC Busse felt that the current way was a good compromise to save on assembly costs.
And it's absolutely impossible to build a production knife to fit everyone perfectly.:)

I found the Busse handle on my E-BM too be too square as well as too large for my hands.
I also didn't like the tang extending past the micarta.
I have largish hands, but short stubby fingers, and the handle was very uncomfortable for me to use.
I used a coarse wood rasp to round the micarta off a little at a time so I wouldn't screw the handle up and get it too small.
After I got the corners rounded to where I liked it I found that the handle was still to big for my taste so I took the tang off to the micarta and then a bit more on the palm swell on my Grizzly Grinder.
I also took the tang down across the back as well.

I also prefer a more "pointy" knife so while I had the Grizzly Grinder powered up I took some steel off the top edge about 4" back and made it into more of a spearpoint without really changeing the blade profile.
The point is just as strong as it ever was but now it penetrates anything it's stabbed into much better.
And without the back edge being sharpened it can still be used as the utility knife it was designed to be.
You can't use a knife that has its back edge sharp for a draw knife when needed.

There's nothing wrong with taking a production model knife and tweaking it to your own tastes and satisfaction as long as it's done carefully so the temper won't be harmed.
I was quite amazed to see where some guys were wrapping the E-BM handles with paracord to make them larger!!!!
All I can say is that those guys must have gigantic hands!!!!
 
I have smaller hands as well, but I knew from reading the forums, that the handles were quite large. BUSSE must be a big man or have big hands or both. The handle is certainly larger than most knives one would find from most manufactures. In fact, I can't think of any larger?

BUSSE makes a great knife, and I'm certain he does all he can to meet the needs of his customers, as well as his business. Given the production technique, it would be great if the handle slabs were made a little larger than the tang as I suggested. I doubt that the material cost would be significant, and would give all the "whiners" like me, a very reasonable and easy solution.

I have a Burr King in my garage, but I just can't see grinding on my knife. Kinda silly I know, but I regret several kitchen table gunsmith projects of the past. If I demanded a knife to fit just me, I guess I would custom order something instead of changing something. I ordered a Randall with a smaller Border Patrol handle shaped to my hand that I love. Didn't even think to see if BUSSE offered a similar service. With their apparent current backlog, and some of the wait times I have heard, I was just happy to get my hands on one. Maybe the next one I will get directly from BUSSE, and just ask that they pick one out that has the slabs as even to the tang as possible. At least I know mine is no different than any other.
 
Originally posted by dvcavall
Maybe the next one I will get directly from BUSSE, and just ask that they pick one out that has the slabs as even to the tang as possible.
Click to expand...

As I said earlier, if you order a knife from Busse now, the tang will be flush with the scales (unless you get one of the older knives that they already had in stock). This has been going on since the Blade Show.
 
Thanks Andrew. You also said that some would be ground down and that some that didn't need it wouldn't. What I meant was that I would like one with the crinkle finish on the tang AND flush scales. We'll see! Either way, I think it's the right way to build a knife. I would suggest that if they are going to grind the tang, that they grind the crinkle finish off the top surfaces of the blade as well or the entire circumference of the blade. I've seen blades finished that way and to me, it is an attractive look, and a more deliberate and finished look than partially grinding the finish off of the tang, although I have never seen one of the partially ground blades. Perhaps you could post a pic? Not certain if doing so would significantly increase the visual signature at night though.
 
I've seen one of the older SHs, with the smooth finish and the tang ground flush with the tang, and I thought it looked good. I also liked the aesthetics of the smooth coat better than that of the crinkle, though I do understand that Busse went to the crinkle coat due to its greater durability. My BM does have the tang slightly higher than the scales, but I find no discomfort under heavy use, and the look really doesn't bother me.
 
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