Marine Combat Knife?

Joined
Apr 20, 2001
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I see alot of different makers have versions of the old standby 7 inch leather stacked handled "Ka-Bar" knives. Of course Ka-Bar themselves, but also Camillus and Case.

Anyone have feedback on who makes the best one?
 
IMO.KaBar Next Generation.Have a feelin' your gonna' get a lot of replies.:D
Doug
 
The KaBar version uses an oval shaped handle. The Camillus (original), Case and other variants I' ve handled all have round handles. An oval shaped handle allows for better orientation of the knife in hand. This is a plus in cold weather, especially when gloves are worn. My choice in this style is the KaBar next generation with rubber handles (oval) and D2 steel!

N.
 
Your specifically named you thread "Marine" combat knife. Well the Marines now have an 8" combination bayonet/fighting knife with a round rubber like handle and a wicked back-cut grind. I belive the maker for the Marines is Ontario but I would have to run upstairs and look at the blade to be sure.

Now the Ka-Bar Next Generation comes in a couple of configurations. The blade is 7" with the Ka-Bar back-cut and serrations on approx. the first 2" of the main blade. The pommel is sort of a teardrop shape with a lanyard hole and a titanium keeper pin. The handle is oval and a kind of rubber material. The 3 that I have have a bead blast type of finish but the D2 model I have has kind of a shiney black finish on the blade.

The original KA-BAR had a leather washer handle with some being rounder then others. Mine is sort of oval and tapers slightly from the center to the hilt and from the center to the pommel. Maybe its just from being used so much on mine. Also mine has a smaller diameter handle then some others I have had. These models have a 7" blade and can be had in different finishes but the standard is parkerized and has a round pommel as well as a double steel hilt

The Next Generation and the D2 Extreme have only a single guard on the hilt. My old original really feels good in my hands but I think that the D2 Extreme will out cut the original.

The Marine issue seems quite rugged and the 8" blade will aid in chopping and cutting brush, limbs, etc. I am considering removing the round muzzle hole since it just gets in the way now because I don't have an M-16 that will take a bayonet.

FWIW
Ciao
Ron
:D
 
I always thought that the"Ka-Bar" company was the origional makers.On their site they claimed that ka-bar couldn't keep up with the wartime demand so they contracted out to Ontario and Camillus to keep up with demand.
If I can find the link I'll post it.
 
I remember seeing a post by a Bladeforums member who tested the Kabar and Camillus versions of the Marine Combat. He found that the Camillus version had better edge-holding.

More recently, though, a member reported buying a Camillus Marine Combat that was not even properly sharpened.

I have never seen anyone speak highly of the Ontario version. As for the Case version, I can't recollect ever seeing anyone state that they've owned or used one.

Yes, the Marines now have a new bayonet/knife made by Ontario. The Marine Combat dates back to WWII.

If I were in the market for a Marine Combat, I would try to find a Camillus version at a brick and morter store that I could inspect to make sure it is properly sharpened. Kabar would be my second choice, and I would be willing to buy a Kabar sight-unseen by mail order.

Why would I want to check out a Camillus when Kabar has more consistent quality control? I like the straight guard on the Camillus version better than the slanted back guard on the Kabars.
 
Thanks folks, the ones I am specifically thinking of buying are the old school leather washer handles. So Ka-Bar sounds like the best bet, unless I can inspect a Camillus before buying?
 
http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/okca_1996.htm

Posted to show who made what.

The year is 1942, the fighting on a tiny island in the Pacific named Guadalcanal is the fiercest yet encountered. While the Marines are slugging it out, often hand to hand, the subject of a fighting knife is again brought to the forefront. At this time the only general issue edged weapon is the bayonet. Enter Colonel John M. Davis and Major Howard E. America. These two officers were given the task of designing a knife that would "fill all the demands that could be made upon it, while standardizing a common knife for the Navy and the Marine Corps". A pretty tall order considering the knife was needed right now ! So with this order in hand the two met with various leading knife manufacturers to decide on a plan of action. With the need being immediate it was apparent to all that the knife would have to closely resemble what was being produced at the time, i.e. leather handle, carbon steel blade, leather scabbard etc.. The design settled on was the Marbles Ideal blade pattern made in a 7 1/2 " blade with a flat pommel so it could be used for pounding in tent pegs or other utility chores. The companies chosen for this project were Boker, Camillus, Case, Pal, Robeson, and Union Cutlery. Prototypes were quickly made and issued to some officers and men returning from Guadalcanal for evaluation. The knives were universally accepted by all using them and gained a quick approval in November 1942. Contracts were quickly given to Boker, Camillus, Pal, Robeson, and Union for 1,200,000 knives, Case was left off due to other production commitments for the military. The knife was officially called the Mark II by the Navy and the U.S.M.C. Fighting / Utility knife by the Marine Corps. The original contract stated that the makers name, address and branch of service be stamped into the blade. The government changed this in 1944 for ease of manufacture and stocking as both knives were identical. The contracts given are listed below.

U.S.M.C. U.S.N.

1942-3 Boker 0 50,000

Camillus 150,000 331,600

Pal 100,000 75,000

Robeson 10,000 90,000

Union 350,000 60,000

Both

1944 Camillus 150,000

Robeson 100,000

Union 50,000

1945 Camillus 175,000

For unknown reasons Boker never produced any Mark II's.

The above list is only a list of contracts given as I have not been able to find any valid production figures or numbers received by the government. I do know that production was halted on the 1945 contract at around 67,000 knives. Allowing for Boker not making any and the production halt in 1945, that gives us 1,533,600 produced in 2 1/2 years. In Cole's Book III he states in a letter from Kabar that they produced around 1,000,000 of these knives. If anyone has any information on production figures I would surely appreciate knowing. Several searches from the National Archives and other sources have produced only contract information.

The knives themselves were produced in many variations, (enough to keep me busy looking for many years) and markings. The major design difference is in the pommel attaching method. The first design as Cole refers to as Type 1 is a thick pommel attached to a threaded tang. The makers used different variations on this theme but none were actually strong enough to do the job. Camillus came up with a simple fix which not only made the knife stronger, it also helped to speed up production. The tank was left rectangular and the pommel was attached by a pin driven through both to hold everything in place. All manufacturers eventually switched to this design at some stage in production. This is referred to as the Type II design. Many different blade stampings were used during production owing more to worn out dies then to production changes. I mid 1944 reports from the field showed blades failing at the handle blade junction and it was thought to be from the stamping on the blade. This was quickly overcome by stamping the knives on the guard and not the blade. (This was later proven false in the post war years and blade stamping resumed.) All the knives had a 7" blade, full steel cross guard, stacked leather washer handles with 5 grooves cut into them and a steel pommel. The early blades from Robeson and Union were deeply blued. All others were parkerized. Pal did produce some knives with smooth handles and aluminum pommels, these are thought to be made up of spare parts at the factory when supplies were short. Handle differences can also be found in placement of thick and thin fiber washers at the guard and pommel ends.
 
Between the Camillus and Ka-Bar versions of the generic WW2 k-bar. I would urge you to consider the Camillus (be sure to inspect the grinds before paying) as better of the two for using. Whilst the Ka-Bar is far too pretty to even consider cutting with. But seriously, that's just because its finishing is more superior. Also being parkerized/epoxy baked(?) would mean that the black coating would wear away much faster than the mil. spec Camillus version. So that's my observation and my 2 cents worth. BTW, the Ontario versions have pretty badly machined leather washer handles. But the sheath is superb and you would be pleased to know that the knife works equally well.
 
I have both Kabar and Camillus, EVERY KABAR will come razor sharp out of the box. Fit and Finish on a Kabar is top notch. Of the two camillus "kabar" style knives I have, both came unsharpened. When I say unsharpened I mean the black phosphate coating is on the edge. GO with Kabar, I have all of them, Next Generation 12C27 (now 440A), Next Generation D2, Impact D2, and WWII style. You cannot go wrong with any Kabar. Camillus gets a huge thumbs down. Please note, I also have a camillus pilots knife, just as bad (absolutely unsharpened) as the two marine corps knifes made by them.

Jansen
 
by the way, the epoxy coat on a kabar will last infinitely longer than the phosphate coating on the camillu. You can scatch the camillus coating with your fingernail. the kabar expoxy coating can take serious abuse.

jansen
 
J_L Was your Camillus pilot knife badly ground?I had to completly reprofile my friends.That completely turned me away from the camillus brand.The leather handle wasn't even either.the discs were all over the place.

I own 6 ka-bar knives including 2 usmc models.one's an antique that I bought at an army surplus/millitary antiques shop.it's still completly usable it looks like it's been through hell and back twice.
Go kabar and you won't go wrong.
 
savagesicslayer

YES!!!! Finally someone who had the same problem with Camillus knives. I"ll try to get a picture of the knife and post it. Here is a Recap

Camillus Marine Knife (striaght Edge) - No edge, phosphate on edge, tip was blunt enough that you could look at it and see a square with phosphate on it. I'm still working this knife with a rough diamond stone to get it usable.

Camillus Marine knife (sawback, serrated) - Identical to above (I will attemp to get pictures for you). Even the serrations are coated in black (picture soon I hope).

Camillus Pilots kinfe - No edge (same as above). The handle was in bad shape too. Unfinished leather washers with a chip/chunk out of one.

It really torqued my bolts when these came in. Needless to say I have sworn Camillus off as a brand. KABAR has never failed me in the fit/finish out of box. I have 11 of them and am looking at buying the 8" fighter and warthog with zero worries.

Jansen
 
I have the Camillus version, which I bought when I was with the 1st MP Co, 1st Infantry Division, in 1979. I carried it for my 3 years in the service where it saw at least 6 countries that come to mind, and did every job you can think of, short of taking human life.

After I got out, it became a general purpose outdoors use knife.
The last 10 years or so, I've used it primarily to butcher deer. There's absolutely no problem putting on & keeping a hair shaving edge using a set of crock sticks.

I never did anything with the handle, and it showed. Last week I sanded it down and refinished it with Watco Danish Oil and spar varnish. It now looks better than when I bought it. It's also now completely water, blood, and spooge proof.

After 26 years, it's about to go back on duty. I lead a High Risk Entry/SWAT team, and my Camillus Fighter is going to replace my SOG Swat Pup on my tac belt. I figure neither one of us is quite ready for pasture yet.

This is not to say I think Camillus is better than Ka-Bar, just telling you my experience with the one I've owned & used for a long time. I sure wouldn't shrink from getting a Ka-Bar, as they have a long track record that speaks for itself...
 
The grinds aren't that even but the rest of the knife is good, fit and finish wise. All things being equal I still like the knife, even with PS and the sawback. I can't comment on the black finish as I took it off with a Dremel and a wire wheel. There's some good looking steel under there. Get the one that tickles your fancy, both will work. The Ka-Bar is prettier but I didn't get the Camillus to be pretty, I got it to do the ugly jobs. YMMV

Frank
 
It may be that I got three lemons from Camillus? But I have been burned by them and will stick to Kabar. It is all up to the buyer but i recommend KABAR!!

ndterminator

Do you have pics of the handle since you reconditioned it? If I can get this camillus reprofiled (I'm going to Lansky it) I would like to work the handle next. Any tips you can share?

Jansen
 
The Camillus model follows the lines of the Mil Spec i.e. lowest bidder etc. Attention was never given to the fit and finish like the more commercialy produced model from Kabar. If Kabar wanted the military contract to produce FU's for the government, they would probably resemble the current Ontario offering - crude and cheap.

My favorite Mark II is the Camillus from WWII. Definitley was the best ground and proportioned example. All the Kabar made Mark II's from the 40's weren't done as well or as consistent as the Camillus models.

I only wish that Camillus would give their FU's the same attention that they give to all the other companies they manufacture for; BK & T, Cold Steel etc. Evidently not a priority but sure would be nice thoough.

Dan
 
Jansen,
for whatever reason, I can't PM. If you PM me your email, I'll send you a explanation of the project and send you a picture...
NDT
 
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