Marketing tips for the beginner

BustedCarpenter said:
Thank you all for the awesome advice, it is more helpful than I imagined. Apologies for the lack of profile content(I’ve never participated in a forum before so there will be some learning curve for me) , I will update it following the completion of my current project.

I live in Edmonton Alberta, and was working as a welding inspector/project coordinator(dislocated my shoulder ending my carpentry career a few years back). I’ve always loved well made tools, and knifemaking has always been a dream of mine. I started a a little over a year ago and in my spare time I’ve made ten or so with a 1” wen grinder, forge and a lot of sweat equity but was apprehensive to selling to folks I don’t know because I wasn’t 100% confident in my heat treating using the forge (learning to eye w2 within a 75 degree range is not something I’m confident I can learn without the help of someone with decades of experience)

My condition isn’t physical in the strictest sense, potions of my brain have been losing connection, particularly the one which regulates my sleep patterns so it has become nearly impossible to wake up at a set time of day. The results from my spinal tap indicate MS tho they are still testing to rule out some of the more exotic potential causes,

I appreciate the cautions regarding full time viability. I should have specified I intend to continue working and taking a few months off a year dedicated to learning the craft, each year trying to add additional months supported by knife making because I love the process.

I’ve learned a great deal of what I know about the knifemaking process from this forum and really appreciate everyone on it, I look forward to participating and(once I can figure out how) posting my work for you folks to pick apart in the hopes of making me a better maker!
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another Canadian! Welcome to Bladeforums!
Crag the Brewer said:
Maybe, but costing is a difficult subject, we Could fill many posts on the s subject.
Me personally, I'd rather sell Quickly, be in demand, and have the purchaser feel they got a good deal. That naturally could lead to more sales.

Think about the knives that you paid too much for....did you race out and buy Another one right away?

There are different philosophies about how to do it.

I've read that it's better to need to raise your price than it is to lower it!
(Big picture)
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it's so funny... the quotation that I have in my brain is "it's harder to raise your price than it is to lower it" 🤣


to the OP- although I'm enjoying this discussion, I would say that you are putting the cart WAAAAAY ahead of the horse, here. At this stage, marketing shouldn't even be on your radar- I think it would behoove you to start knuckling down and making knives and try to figure out what it is you're doing. When you have a clearer picture of what it is you're bringing to the table, it will be far easier to articulate to the big world out there why it is people should take an interest in your work.
 
Lorien said:
another Canadian! Welcome to Bladeforums!

it's so funny... the quotation that I have in my brain is "it's harder to raise your price than it is to lower it" 🤣


to the OP- although I'm enjoying this discussion, I would say that you are putting the cart WAAAAAY ahead of the horse, here. At this stage, marketing shouldn't even be on your radar- I think it would behoove you to start knuckling down and making knives and try to figure out what it is you're doing. When you have a clearer picture of what it is you're bringing to the table, it will be far easier to articulate to the big world out there why it is people should take an interest in your work.
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I know it’s atypical but I’ve always approached things looking at the whole scope and working towards everything as a segmented unit, I find I learn more about each step of a scope if I have a plan roughed out ahead of time! Plus I did a quick search and couldn’t find a thread on here pertaining to the subject so I figured it couldn’t hurt!
Lorien said:
another Canadian! Welcome to Bladeforums!

it's so funny... the quotation that I have in my brain is "it's harder to raise your price than it is to lower it" 🤣


to the OP- although I'm enjoying this discussion, I would say that you are putting the cart WAAAAAY ahead of the horse, here. At this stage, marketing shouldn't even be on your radar- I think it would behoove you to start knuckling down and making knives and try to figure out what it is you're doing. When you have a clearer picture of what it is you're bringing to the table, it will be far easier to articulate to the big world out there why it is people should take an interest in your work.
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I know haha but I’m an overthinker and a planner, plus I couldn’t find a thread relating to it so I figured I wasn’t a bad way to dip my toe and say hi to you folks!
 
Seedy Lot said:
Joshua Fisher Joshua Fisher Most makers are not able to bill at 100 dollars per hour and they are spending more then 1-2 hours on a knife, I would say that is a fairly optimistic outlook.
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I think Joshua was saying he had 1-2 hrs labor in the marketing, packaging, shipping of knife, NOT labor of making the knife. Joshua, did I get that right? Any idea of labor time in making a typical drop point skinner or 9" chef knife?

As an adder to conversation, anybody care to comment on typical material cost of making the skinner or chef knife? metal, belts, scales, drill bits, etc? Seems I read on the forum a while back typical cost would be in the $50 to $70 range depending on alloy used for blade - I'm talking about typical scales here, NOT the primo $70 piece of wood, or mammoth ivory. Just simple wood or micarta type scales.

Perhaps I should add here I'm a retired hobby maker and happy to sell enough knives each year to cover material costs - well, mostly cover anyway:) Capital investments (grinders, lathes, oven, etc) are not even considered.
 
Ken H> said:
I think Joshua was saying he had 1-2 hrs labor in the marketing, packaging, shipping of knife, NOT labor of making the knife. Joshua, did I get that right? Any idea of labor time in making a typical drop point skinner or 9" chef knife?

As an adder to conversation, anybody care to comment on typical material cost of making the skinner or chef knife? metal, belts, scales, drill bits, etc? Seems I read on the forum a while back typical cost would be in the $50 to $70 range depending on alloy used for blade - I'm talking about typical scales here, NOT the primo $70 piece of wood, or mammoth ivory. Just simple wood or micarta type scales.

Perhaps I should add here I'm a retired hobby maker and happy to sell enough knives each year to cover material costs - well, mostly cover anyway:) Capital investments (grinders, lathes, oven, etc) are not even considered.
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That’s the time I have in most of my standard production knives not including the marketing, packing, shipping. My standard 8” chef knife takes me about 2 hours in hands on labor, I don’t count time waiting like when the knives temper or soaking in the oven since I can be doing other tasks during those. My smallest edc knife takes me just over an hour.
 
I miss read your statement about labor - You are FAST when making knives! MUCH faster than am. But, if I consider how long it takes to cut out and profile a blade, then remove HT 'n Tempering time. Now back in with just grinding the blade. My problem since I make so few knives each year I can spend an hour trying to decide which block of wood to use for the scales. Yep, I'm retired and slow :)
 
Seedy Lot said:
Needless to say if you are a Forged in Fire Champion you are sitting at a different level of name recognition...
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this is a pretty interesting point. The guys I know who've participated in that tv show didn't receive any form of payment for their work- only the winner gets paid.

for someone starting their career in knife making, the marketing opportunity of participation in FiF could be substantial- if they win, but it isn't free by any means. Depending on your situation, though, that kind of exposure could knock several years off the curve and put a guy ahead- if he or she plays their cards right. And wins.

I know a couple guys who were invited on the show, who passed on it because in the two weeks or so of filming, they could make a few knives worth over the $10K prize money, without the travel, expenses and stress of performing and being judged in perpetuity. And without the humiliation of defeat. I've seen at least a couple of some of the world's best bladesmiths go down in flames on that show, and apart from the 15 seconds of fame, receive absolutely nothing for their efforts.

FiF could be seen as a metaphor for how cutlers go about marketing their work, lots of lessons to be had if you just think about it.
 
Lorien said:
this is a pretty interesting point. The guys I know who've participated in that tv show didn't receive any form of payment for their work- only the winner gets paid.

for someone starting their career in knife making, the marketing opportunity of participation in FiF could be substantial- if they win, but it isn't free by any means. Depending on your situation, though, that kind of exposure could knock several years off the curve and put a guy ahead- if he or she plays their cards right. And wins.

I know a couple guys who were invited on the show, who passed on it because in the two weeks or so of filming, they could make a few knives worth over the $10K prize money, without the travel, expenses and stress of performing and being judged in perpetuity. And without the humiliation of defeat. I've seen at least a couple of some of the world's best bladesmiths go down in flames on that show, and apart from the 15 seconds of fame, receive absolutely nothing for their efforts.

FiF could be seen as a metaphor for how cutlers go about marketing their work, lots of lessons to be had if you just think about it.
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When I went on the show I did it because I thought it would be a fun experience, it was a show that got me interested in trying to make knives originally so to be able to participate in the show was really fun. It took me 2-3 months to catch up on knives when I got back from the competition. I’m sure I don’t market being on the show as much as I could/should but I’ve seen makers that use FiF as their entire identity as a maker and I’ve always wanted my knives to speak for themselves and prefer to let quality be the selling point. Most of my knives I keep between $100-$400 at that price point I’m targeting users and people that are just starting to want good knives over say a Walmart special. At that price point the entire marketing pitch is based around quality and performance and those are easy things to quantify or explain. When I do high end work that i may sell for $1000+ the marketing has to shift because the market is a different group of people, then it becomes more about the materials and some techniques of how the piece was made so for example Damascus or San mai, or blades with hamons. At the higher price point it becomes more important to create a unique piece that may never be completely replicated.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
My original plans were to make knives (part-time) as an extra income stream when I retire.
I don't think I want that now.... Idk?
It's an unbelievable amount of work. Tons.
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That's me in a nutshell. I got into making knives because I just love making my own stuff! I make my own recurve bows that I still hunt with. I enjoy making knives that me and the family can use. I figured I could supplement my retirement but now that I'm retired I really don't know if the profit margin is enough to justify the work. If I sell enough now to support my habit I'm fine now days. After I study my belt orders, Steel orders and consumables IDK if I wouldn't be ahead to work at McDonalds on the side if I need fun money.
 
BustedCarpenter said:
I got some unfortunate news from the doctor recently and from the sounds of it my ability to hold down a normal job(set hours) is going to decline steadily over the coming years so I decided to invest in a Brodbeck grinder and evenheat oven to skill build while coming up with a plan to transition into knife/tool making as a potential career.

I’m not too worried about designing and coming up with efficient ways to tackle tasks. Marketing and sales however are areas in which I have truly no experience and find incredibly daunting.

I guess my question is what avenues are most approachable for a beginner makers and what would you focus on if you were in my shoes? Im truly lost when it comes to this so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Like others have said, your primary focus needs to be on making a good product, marketing is the least of your concern right now.

Good marketing only helps a bad product fail faster.

Not that you're going to make a bad product, but there is a significant learning curve and the market isn't really interested in beginner work at the price you would need to sell it at to make a living.

The details are very important in this line of work.

I saw mentioning of making the product efficiently which is a given, however, the biggest mistake that keeps people from being professional knife makers is the lack of building solid accounting skills. I recommend studying "profit first" accounting.

Most knife makers just want to make knives (it's the fun part) but if you want to do it for a living, you need solid accounting skills on top of your knife making craftsmanship otherwise you'll simply run out of money.

I know you said that you have "the designing and coming up with efficient ways to complete tasks" figured out but, given the importance of product quality and design I would strongly recommend investing into going to Blade Show in Atlanta (the largest knife show on Earth) and walk the show doing some networking and seeing what the professionals are doing.

Like in boxing, styles win fights, you can find your niche/style that suits your taste, experience, demographic and background and cater to a like-minded customer base after that, you could see how marketing will just fall into place rather than being something alien and awkward.

The demographics of Bladeforms is mostly hobbyist so it will be limited on the amount of professional advice you will receive here, if you're serious about that life direction you'll be better served meeting people in person at Blade Show and asking good questions to truly see if it's something you really want to do.

Getting a taste at Blade Show could be either a reality check or ignite the passion deeper, but it would still be cheaper than finding out on your own after becoming knee deep in debt or experiencing an unforeseen life event and realizing you've dug yourself a hole with this career path you can't get out of.

Best wishes and good luck.
 
Tom has it right. I see this often. New makers, or folks that are not even makers yet, just trying to get started already talking about selling and marketing. They don't understand the work it takes just to start figuring out basic stuff. Selling should be the last thing on a new maker's mind. The first order of business should be LEARN THE CRAFT. When and if you reach the point where you are consistently producing quality product then it will be time to think about selling and marketing. But to be honest, by that time people will be taking note of your work and your progress and they will be buying your pieces. Nothing is a better calling card and marketing tool than quality work. It goes back to the phrase "if you build it (well), they will come.
 
I would also add that your perception of knife making, and the reality, are likely far apart. It's harder than it looks :) and the PPE is intense for most of us. Working in a hot shop covered in gear and trying to turn out beautiful pieces of steel isn't for everyone. Please make 10 knives before even considering doing anything more than making 10 knives. Btw, smart guy told me once that the best way to learn to make knives is to make the same one, 5 times in a row. You will learn on each one and improve. Please don't take anything that I have said as negative or dissuading...but you won't make any money selling knives on your first efforts anyway, so just think of it as a long interview, with some nice hardware benefits hopefully. Plenty of time to think about everything else after you decide if this is for you. Good luck!
 
Knife making is REALLY HARD.
Every aspect of it.
I'm positive Id be making more money at Micky D's if I had to earn a living between the two.

You said you were in construction.
Those skills don't really transfer over, you will be completely learning a new trade.

I was a toolroom machinist.
I know my stuff, I have my own tools/guages/etc. Kennedy's/Brown & Sharpe/Mitutoyo/ $$$
I'm surprised how difficult, and how great (My) learning curve has been. It's not easy.
I think with my background, I started with the equivalent of maybe 2 plus years of "knife making experience" maybe, idk? Defenatlly it's helped me, But.....
I'm speculating that a person with no metalworking experience would need almost 5 years before getting ok.


Do it for Fun, not because you have to.
 
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