Marketing to knife makers, what do you look for?

I had a talk with Mark about photographing wood recently and a few months ago, his main message was that light boxes don't show figure as well as direct, of perpendicular light does. The photos I have taken in direct light seem to support that.
 
I had a talk with Mark about photographing wood recently and a few months ago, his main message was that light boxes don't show figure as well as direct, of perpendicular light does. The photos I have taken in direct light seem to support that.
Ben, I think everyone here is just trying to help you. I know I am. There is nothing that says you can't shoot direct light at your subject and then back light it also with diffused light to soften shadows. There is quite a bit to product photography and I sure you would be well served to do more research, rather than dropping your block of wood into direct sunlight and calling it good to go.

As a side note, I've mentioned this to you before. Get rid of the crude labeling of torn masking tape and magic marker, it just looks unprofessional. Look at Mark's photos, there are no wicked cast shadows and he uses white computer generated labels. All in all, just a better presentation than what you are coming up with.
 
Chuck, Im aware of the differences in photo quality. I have a label maker ordered, but it isnt here yet. And seeing as this is how I pay most of my college tuition, I cant not post wood until I have a perfectly clean set up. Its simply not an option for me.

Im aware it is not the most professional look right now and I am working on it. But the wood is high quality, the photos accurately show the color and figure of the wood and I deliver what I would consider high quality customer service and am always happy to answer any wood related questions people may have.

But while you are on Burl Source, take a look at the pricing of figured walnut and redwood burl and compare it to my pricing.
 
But while you are on Burl Source, take a look at the pricing of figured walnut and redwood burl and compare it to my pricing.
Okay, let's do that.

I see your block number twelve. It's 1-3/4"x 1 x 5-1/4" priced at $37.00

Mark has a block of comparable figure #2352, it's 1-3/16" x 2-15/16" x 5-1/8" and it's priced at $55.00

Now comes the kicker, I can only get one handle from your block and from Mark's I can get two. So, you tell me, who's cheaper?
 
If larger blocks are what you guys are after Im more than happy to cut them. But this entire thread had consisted of people telling me my blocks were too large and wasteful.

For reference, The blocks Chuck was referring to. FIrst Mark's, then mine.

RNIENBd.jpg

4Yn9HoM.jpg
 
Ben, don't go down the rabbit hole of comparing yourself to someone else. Especially when that someone else has ridiculous pricing.

Personally I think taking pictures under the right natural lighting and angles leads to the best pictures. The last ones you posted were absolutely good enough to show what the wood is. I personally don't care about state of the art anything, especially simple photography, when the job gets done just as well for a better price with other methods. The next time I'm in the market I'll be coming to you to try out. That is, unless you show your ass to the world trying to publicly compete with a guy (actually, not even the guy, just his customers) you're already beating just because the customer base hasn't been established yet.

Step back, breathe. Don't worry. Your pictures are good enough now. Make sure your customer service and product offerings are on point. No one can decide how you can accomplish that but you. Just don't get caught up in bickering with people who have no genuine interest in your success or failure, especially when they're immediately showing loyalty to a competitor. Hell, for the prices your competitors charge maybe you should think about contacting them directly and being a source for them. You make money, they make money, and they already have shown theyre willing and able to charge silly prices. No reason for you to NOT try to get in on that by being a direct supplier, especially if the margins for you are the same.

If the wood you supply is good, then all you have to worry about is not fu**ing up publicly. Compete with your competitors' loyal customers and it's a sure loss for you. Let YOUR customers do that for you. Take the high road. Follow Sal Glesser's lead on this one. The only competition you have is your own standard. Everyone else is just noise.
 
Last edited:
Chuck,

It seems pretty clear I am not going to get your business at the time being. It seems my store is not at the level of professionalism you look for when buying wood. Thats understandable seeing as I am not a professional and there are guys who have been in this buisness longer than I have been alive. But I do hope to someday win your business, and if that day comes I hope you will be pleased with the products.

Ben Greenberg
Greenberg Woods
 
Okay, let's do that.

I see your block number twelve. It's 1-3/4"x 1 x 5-1/4" priced at $37.00

Mark has a block of comparable figure #2352, it's 1-3/16" x 2-15/16" x 5-1/8" and it's priced at $55.00

Now comes the kicker, I can only get one handle from your block and from Mark's I can get two. So, you tell me, who's cheaper?

With the example above, if you look at the price per cubic inch, Burl Source is cheaper.

Greenberg- 9.1875 cubic inches for $37 = $4.03 per cubic inch
Burl Source- 17.87 cubic inches for $55 = $3.08 per cubic inch

Ben, you are getting defensive and posting impulsively. I think this is starting to backfire on you.
 
Chuck,

It seems pretty clear I am not going to get your business at the time being. It seems my store is not at the level of professionalism you look for when buying wood. Thats understandable seeing as I am not a professional and there are guys who have been in this buisness longer than I have been alive. But I do hope to someday win your business, and if that day comes I hope you will be pleased with the products.

Ben Greenberg
Greenberg Woods

Ben, you have taken me all wrong. You started this thread asking for advise. I've been selling on the internet longer than you have been alive and in business for myself even longer than that. I've also had my fair share of working with wood. I was the the project manager for the re-decking of the USS Battleship NC where we replaced 33,000 sq. ft of teak decking.

The advise I've offered up is from many years of experience and the bottom line is that selling online to a stranger is all about presentation. Here you have people that know you, but a stranger that stumbles across your website is going judge you solely by your presentation. I'm just saying, put your best foot forward. It will increase your sales, it's a fact, not just my opinion.

Please don't think I'm advocating Burl Source as I've never bought a single piece of wood from Mark. You are the one that brought his name up and suggested he was some sort of photography expert.

Right now I'm not looking for any handle material, but when I am, I'll certainly take a look at what you have to offer. I'm sorry if you've taken offense to my advise, as that was not my intent and I'll just leave it with wishing you good luck with your business!
 
Light boxes work too.

Shane, the reason I prefer direct light for some figured woods, Redwood burl in particular, is that you can capture a lot more of the flame. Granted, its a huge pain to photograph the BLADE of a knife in sunlight, but here is some redwood burl I just photographed today.

rQhvxLf.jpg

AFgGe2v.jpg
 
Ben,

I agree with you on direct lighting for figure. With the tents, many use the wrong white balance settings so the picture comes out a little cold and washed out. Ideally you'd have stronger main and softer second or reflect from other direction.

I have all the gear, big lights on stands with soft output, reflectors, etc... but honestly I sometimes find it easiest to shoot on a slightly cloudy day and keep the sun over your shoulders. Try a white wall nearby or a hand-held reflector or a even a piece of folded paper to soften shadows if needed. Check white balance for temperature (cool vs warm).

Don't use wide angle or telephoto lens but something around 50mm-75mm range if you have choice to match what your eyes see.

Like you did with the redwood, use an oblique view.

Try to include views of all sides of product.

Practice and try different things like you've been doing.

Best of luck, Andre
 
Back
Top