Marto Brewer Explorer Survivor knife? New guy with questions. Need help from experts!

[Zuluninja]

I did like the idea of a rolled bag, with more surface to print on. As for a bifurcated tang, maybe if it's something something like a Wilkinson Dartmoor? The tang on it is blanked out in the middle, while the rubber handle covers that section and is secured with a nut. Marto doing that one again? not likely. The rest of your list I'm pretty sure has been covered by current HH knife makers, with upgraded materials/storage/what's inside.

 

[marcinek]

Good point. It would be easier if I saw what the actual tang looked like. My tang idea was based on the assumption that the initial tang is the same width as the blade until it reach the first (and currently only) retaining pin. My idea was meant to spread the force load through the hilt to include the titanium (?) handle. Still, adding a force riser isn't good, either. What did you think of my other ideas?

I guess, first it depends on if your comments are for that knife or hollow handled knives in General.

Second I summarized my feelings in my earlier post. Hollow handled survival knife fans may think they are great ideas, but until the strength of the blade/handle join is addressed, you have done nothing to change the minds of any "naysayers."

I mean you could take a hollow handled survival knife, paint it pink, call it Betty, and put a nano-Rambo-bot in the handle, and it doesn't address the issue most have with them.

 

[not2sharp]

.... Hollow handled survival knife fans may think they are great ideas, but until the strength of the blade/handle join is addressed, you have done nothing to change the minds of any "naysayers."....

On the quality blades, there was seldom a problem with the blade handle joint. The idea that the joint would fail came largely from the experience of those playing with flea market knives. The true problem was with the sawback design, which interferred with the blade function and created a potential stress riser.

During the 1980s, Cold steel briefly ran an ad featuring the Buck Buckmaster. They had clamped the blade into a vise and repeatedly forced it to fail using a large length of pipe for leverage. The imaged showed a Buckmaster with the blade broken into 5-6 pieces; but even then the blade handle joint was still intact.

n2s

 

[Pilsner]

On the quality blades, there was seldom a problem with the blade handle joint. The idea that the joint would fail came largely from the experience of those playing with flea market knives. The true problem was with the sawback design, which interferred with the blade function and created a potential stress riser.

During the 1980s, Cold steel briefly ran an ad featuring the Buck Buckmaster. They had clamped the blade into a vise and repeatedly forced it to fail using a large length of pipe for leverage. The imaged showed a Buckmaster with the blade broken into 5-6 pieces; but even then the blade handle joint was still intact.

n2s

Ah, Cold Steel: keepin it classy since the 80’s.

 

[Gaston444]

Well, interesting.

Hardly the kind of stuff that will, as you claim, "quiet all those hollow handle naysayers out there." though.

Ultimately what you are proposing a still a hollow handle knife but with an extra, new stress riser where stick tang bifurcates. And the tang/blade join is "the issue" with hollow handled knives, not what is in the handle, or what the blade is made of, or storage space in the sheath, or the type of sharpening stone, etc etc etc.

Not it's not. The weak point is the attachment method (resin) to/ handle (round tube) joint: Nothing to do with the tang.

That weak point exists on all resin attached tube-handled knife, yet the presence of this resin is still a sign of quality: It includes Colin Cox and the identically attached low-end United Cutlery Rambos of the 80-90s (but not the current fastener-attached Master Cutlery), and also many others. Liles are resin-attached tubes as well, but they seem to have a "lip" inside the tube/resin joint, which means the guard will bend under impact before the tube moves. (Maybe because Lile guards seem exceptionally soft for that reason, and they bend easily: Perhaps there is no tube "lip", just a soft guard)

The only way to get any loosening on resin attached tube handles is to use the guard as a fulcrum lever with a strong impact on its lugged ends while chopping (the "lugs", by extending forward, provide a diagonal "twisting" vector to the impact, and are thus a terrible idea to combine with resin: The screwdriver tips are far better at keeping the impact straight, negating this effect). The guard provides the only possible impact leverage to make itself rattle, and the joint never weakens any further after the guard rattle (which can be somewhat cured with crazy glue gel).

Any hollow tube handle total failure (beyond mere guard rattle) comes from the lack of use of hard resin glue as an attachment (the G-Flex type boat repair glue is the current top end incarnation of this resin). Without resin, which is uncrackable and never loosens, screws, bolts, fasteners or pins are all susceptible to breakage, clicking sounds or loosening.

The mentioned solution of a double rat tail is close to my own design, which is not pretty, but solves all the saw/handle/blade problems: Here is a post I did elsewhere that describes it:


If we start speculating on what would be an ideal "Grail" knife design, then this would be my candidate for a heavy duty "Survival Knife":

Although it is designed for maximum efficiency, the only problem I see is that it is kind of ugly...

There are many design refinements though:

-That handle shape is ideal, I know for having re-shaped my Randall Model 12-9/14 grind with an identical handle shape: It was superior for every kind of use over a year of testing. The idea for the shape came from forming silly putty squeezed inside my hand.

-Split U-tang would retain strength while saving weight, the bulged scales would be pinned around a thin metal cigar-like compartment that would come out with the buttcap, ensuring waterproofing despite the separate pinned scales.

-Saw is of the most effective triangular double-row offset type, pull cutting, with the added effectiveness of the triangle tips being the widest part of the blade from sitting on top of a full height Full Flat grind.

-The handle's correct downward shape should be bad for turning the knife upside down to use the saw: This is corrected here by having the saw "climb" to match the down angle of the handle when upside down.

-Flaring adds tremendous mass to the tip. (3" wide at the "hump"..)

-Tip is kept sharp by concaving the clip right after its "flare", to create an ax head with the clip, while still keeping a fairly sharp sticking point (nothing is more annoying than having to lay the knife down on the ground because of a blunt point)...

The Full Flat Grind would actually keep the weight down to around 25 ounces, even with 1/4" stock. Full Flat grinds are always shockingly light. They do occasionally stay "stuck" into the wood when chopping with thin non convex edges (this is especially bad in wet wood), but proper "Survival Technique" is NOT to cut through, but to cut shallow all around, then break...

It would out-perform a hatchet by miles, and the sawback is so well optimized it would actually begin to follow the performance or "real" saws... And, of course, it would retain the main reasons for sticking with a big knife: At 10" of blade it would clear paths, and especially de-limb, like nobody's business.

It is ugly I'll admit. That's a problem I could not solve... The sheath would have to be a sideway-pull open-spine type, which I don't like either.

Gaston

 

[Pilsner]

Not it's not. The weak point is the attachment method (resin) to/ handle (round tube) joint: Nothing to do with the tang.

That weak point exists on all resin attached tube-handled knife, yet the presence of this resin is still a sign of quality: It includes Colin Cox and the identically attached low-end United Cutlery Rambos of the 80-90s (but not the current fastener-attached Master Cutlery), and also many others. Liles are resin-attached tubes as well, but they seem to have a "lip" inside the tube/resin joint, which means the guard will bend under impact before the tube moves. (Maybe because Lile guards seem exceptionally soft for that reason, and they bend easily: Perhaps there is no tube "lip", just a soft guard)

The only way to get any loosening on resin attached tube handles is to use the guard as a fulcrum lever with a strong impact on its lugged ends while chopping (the "lugs", by extending forward, provide a diagonal "twisting" vector to the impact, and are thus a terrible idea to combine with resin: The screwdriver tips are far better at keeping the impact straight, negating this effect). The guard provides the only possible impact leverage to make itself rattle, and the joint never weakens any further after the guard rattle (which can be somewhat cured with crazy glue gel).

Any hollow tube handle total failure (beyond mere guard rattle) comes from the lack of use of hard resin glue as an attachment (the G-Flex type boat repair glue is the current top end incarnation of this resin). Without resin, which is uncrackable and never loosens, screws, bolts, fasteners or pins are all susceptible to breakage, clicking sounds or loosening.

The mentioned solution of a double rat tail is close to my own design, which is not pretty, but solves all the saw/handle/blade problems: Here is a post I did elsewhere that describes it:


If we start speculating on what would be an ideal "Grail" knife design, then this would be my candidate for a heavy duty "Survival Knife":

Although it is designed for maximum efficiency, the only problem I see is that it is kind of ugly...

There are many design refinements though:

-That handle shape is ideal, I know for having re-shaped my Randall Model 12-9/14 grind with an identical handle shape: It was superior for every kind of use over a year of testing. The idea for the shape came from forming silly putty squeezed inside my hand.

-Split U-tang would retain strength while saving weight, the bulged scales would be pinned around a thin metal cigar-like compartment that would come out with the buttcap, ensuring waterproofing despite the separate pinned scales.

-Saw is of the most effective triangular double-row offset type, pull cutting, with the added effectiveness of the triangle tips being the widest part of the blade from sitting on top of a full height Full Flat grind.

-The handle's correct downward shape should be bad for turning the knife upside down to use the saw: This is corrected here by having the saw "climb" to match the down angle of the handle when upside down.

-Flaring adds tremendous mass to the tip. (3" wide at the "hump"..)

-Tip is kept sharp by concaving the clip right after its "flare", to create an ax head with the clip, while still keeping a fairly sharp sticking point (nothing is more annoying than having to lay the knife down on the ground because of a blunt point)...

The Full Flat Grind would actually keep the weight down to around 25 ounces, even with 1/4" stock. Full Flat grinds are always shockingly light. They do occasionally stay "stuck" into the wood when chopping with thin non convex edges (this is especially bad in wet wood), but proper "Survival Technique" is NOT to cut through, but to cut shallow all around, then break...

It would out-perform a hatchet by miles, and the sawback is so well optimized it would actually begin to follow the performance or "real" saws... And, of course, it would retain the main reasons for sticking with a big knife: At 10" of blade it would clear paths, and especially de-limb, like nobody's business.

It is ugly I'll admit. That's a problem I could not solve... The sheath would have to be a sideway-pull open-spine type, which I don't like either.

Gaston

This. This is golden, Gaston.

 

[danbot]

Not it's not. The weak point is the attachment method (resin) to/ handle (round tube) joint: Nothing to do with the tang.

That weak point exists on all resin attached tube-handled knife, yet the presence of this resin is still a sign of quality: It includes Colin Cox and the identically attached low-end United Cutlery Rambos of the 80-90s (but not the current fastener-attached Master Cutlery), and also many others. Liles are resin-attached tubes as well, but they seem to have a "lip" inside the tube/resin joint, which means the guard will bend under impact before the tube moves. (Maybe because Lile guards seem exceptionally soft for that reason, and they bend easily: Perhaps there is no tube "lip", just a soft guard)

The only way to get any loosening on resin attached tube handles is to use the guard as a fulcrum lever with a strong impact on its lugged ends while chopping (the "lugs", by extending forward, provide a diagonal "twisting" vector to the impact, and are thus a terrible idea to combine with resin: The screwdriver tips are far better at keeping the impact straight, negating this effect). The guard provides the only possible impact leverage to make itself rattle, and the joint never weakens any further after the guard rattle (which can be somewhat cured with crazy glue gel).

Any hollow tube handle total failure (beyond mere guard rattle) comes from the lack of use of hard resin glue as an attachment (the G-Flex type boat repair glue is the current top end incarnation of this resin). Without resin, which is uncrackable and never loosens, screws, bolts, fasteners or pins are all susceptible to breakage, clicking sounds or loosening.

The mentioned solution of a double rat tail is close to my own design, which is not pretty, but solves all the saw/handle/blade problems: Here is a post I did elsewhere that describes it:


If we start speculating on what would be an ideal "Grail" knife design, then this would be my candidate for a heavy duty "Survival Knife":

Although it is designed for maximum efficiency, the only problem I see is that it is kind of ugly...

There are many design refinements though:

-That handle shape is ideal, I know for having re-shaped my Randall Model 12-9/14 grind with an identical handle shape: It was superior for every kind of use over a year of testing. The idea for the shape came from forming silly putty squeezed inside my hand.

-Split U-tang would retain strength while saving weight, the bulged scales would be pinned around a thin metal cigar-like compartment that would come out with the buttcap, ensuring waterproofing despite the separate pinned scales.

-Saw is of the most effective triangular double-row offset type, pull cutting, with the added effectiveness of the triangle tips being the widest part of the blade from sitting on top of a full height Full Flat grind.

-The handle's correct downward shape should be bad for turning the knife upside down to use the saw: This is corrected here by having the saw "climb" to match the down angle of the handle when upside down.

-Flaring adds tremendous mass to the tip. (3" wide at the "hump"..)

-Tip is kept sharp by concaving the clip right after its "flare", to create an ax head with the clip, while still keeping a fairly sharp sticking point (nothing is more annoying than having to lay the knife down on the ground because of a blunt point)...

The Full Flat Grind would actually keep the weight down to around 25 ounces, even with 1/4" stock. Full Flat grinds are always shockingly light. They do occasionally stay "stuck" into the wood when chopping with thin non convex edges (this is especially bad in wet wood), but proper "Survival Technique" is NOT to cut through, but to cut shallow all around, then break...

It would out-perform a hatchet by miles, and the sawback is so well optimized it would actually begin to follow the performance or "real" saws... And, of course, it would retain the main reasons for sticking with a big knife: At 10" of blade it would clear paths, and especially de-limb, like nobody's business.

It is ugly I'll admit. That's a problem I could not solve... The sheath would have to be a sideway-pull open-spine type, which I don't like either.

Gaston

One word solution Gaston. Integral.
*drops mic*

 

[TAH]

but until the strength of the blade/handle join is addressed, you have done nothing to change the minds of any "naysayers."

The true problem was with the sawback design, which interferred with the blade function and created a potential stress riser.

The weak point is the attachment method (resin) to/ handle (round tube) joint: Nothing to do with the tang.

Problem solved.

 

[Zuluninja]

my brain did a diagonal twist after it bent at the lip tube.

 

[Too many blades]

Better late than never. I've had a brewer for some years now, never really did much with it. Once I decided to take it out during deer season. Once. While blade shape, ballence, and edge were all quite good, I must say the smooth aluminum grip was a very different matter. Bloody hands are most often a challenge for any knife grip, but IMO the brewer has to be one of the worst. Certainly the worst I've ever used.
I gave some thought to texturing or coating the grip but didn't want to damage collector value, and frankly, was uncertain of successful outcome. Ergonomics should not be an afterthought.
I'll keep this blade for the foreseeable future, if only for trading value. But it's actual usage remains a mystery.