Massive Laguiole Folder Real or Fake

[meako]

@Chui at least they look better made than the op's knife...decent looking wood instead of that laminated green looking sh#t ...it just looks cheap no matter who uses it....I agree on the flower...Poppy? The big question for me is wjy build a folding knife that has half the blade sticking out when closed?

 

[draggat]

@Chui at least they look better made than the op's knife...decent looking wood instead of that laminated green looking sh#t ...it just looks cheap no matter who uses it....I agree on the flower...Poppy? The big question for me is why build a folding knife that has half the blade sticking out when closed?

My thoughts exactly. I've seen these on Spanish dealer sites and thought they were exclusive to Spain. I think any knife that has Laguiole etched on it, that isn't an actual laguiole, is a huge red flag.

Here's one made by Muela, an otherwise decent Spanish manufacturer, and this knife isn't cheap!

 

[Will Power]

Wow. I had to look that one up - seems fitting. Maybe I will see if I can find a copy on line somewhere…

Clochemerle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Will Power]

Although I like the highly refined laguioles, I continue to hunt for a simple shepherd's knife with a carbon steel blade marked with a crossbow, or even a nightingale.

Search for an old Lag on the bay france Christian? Plenty of old G.David's were carbon for the main, here's one of mine with inexpensive Horn handle that's held up OK for near 35 years. Stamped blade has interesting mis-strike .

 

[Chui]

That looks like an Himalayan flower

.........mon Dieu..! You are so wrong, monsieur...........it is the very origin of the Fleur de Lis.

I can tell you are actually very taken by it, so let me offer the whole set to you at a very good price......it is not so often such bargains arise...

 

[Jolipapa]

@Chui;
Add 3 camels, 10 goats and 20 big size carpets and a shrubbery, it's a deal!

@meako; @draggat :
It's considered as a dagger. Real à la d'Estaing knives, have non prominent blades on their handles.
Begon à palanquille

 

[kamagong]

Search for an old Lag on the bay france Christian? Plenty of old G.David's were carbon for the main, here's one of mine with inexpensive Horn handle that's held up OK for near 35 years. Stamped blade has interesting mis-strike .

I am looking, but I have trouble reconciling what should be a humble knife with the dear prices they often fetch. By if I am successful in my search I'll make sure to share.

 

[meako]

I find the concept of folding daggers new and strange...and without meaning to offend the craftsmanship behind it...a bit needless. Sorry but its a no from me on the style....hmmmm they could be ultra rare and collectable though..

 

[dantzk8]

It's the exact same knife i've tried to sharpen, two years ago, at the request of a hunter.
"Nightmare" is an understatement to describe such an experience.
The guy who made the knife had, out of distraction or ignorance, not done any heat treatment.
To complete all this, it's the most uncomfortable knife i've ever handled.
For all these reasons it is a real collector's item. Somehow.

Dan.

 

[Chui]

@Chui;
Add 3 camels, 10 goats and 20 big size carpets and a shrubbery, it's a deal!

.....my goodness.!

For a Parisian, I can understand goats, carpet and shrubbery - but 3 camels - they're rather smelly, would that not give your fine and genteel neighbours the hump...!!?

On a more serious note, the ratio 80:20 pops up in life for a few varied reasons..........it is considered that 80% of 'Laguiole' knives offered in the marketplace ('net and dealers) are not genuine. French makers fiercly protect their genuine articles, and rightly so.

Have visited the town of Laguiole (on Harley trips through France) and never once did spy a folding dagger...and would immodestly suggest I have a keen eye.

My only Laguiole - bought on a Harley trip maaaany moons ago - still with me. Occasionally I retrieve it from the drawer and take a delightful whiff of the mesmerising Juniper handle...

Santé..!

 

[screened porch]

@Chui;
Add 3 camels, 10 goats and 20 big size carpets and a shrubbery, it's a deal!

@meako; @draggat :
It's considered as a dagger. Real à la d'Estaing knives, have non prominent blades on their handles.
Begon à palanquille

More of a selective-length fixed blade than an exposed-blade folder!
I think Levine 2 called something else a d'Estaiing knife, but that's off topic.

 

[Jolipapa]

I find the concept of folding daggers new and strange...and without meaning to offend the craftsmanship behind it...a bit needless. Sorry but its a no from me on the style....hmmmm they could be ultra rare and collectable though..

Hard to say revolutionary as it has been designed for a guy whose head was separated of the body in 1794.
I'm sure if it had been Nelson instead of admiral d'Estaing you all would praise them as the most clever invention since tepid water

Clearly the spanish and pakistanese makers lost the plot but hey, they're not the real McCoy.

It's the exact same knife i've tried to sharpen, two years ago, at the request of a hunter.
"Nightmare" is an understatement to describe such an experience.
The guy who made the knife had, out of distraction or ignorance, not done any heat treatment.
To complete all this, it's the most uncomfortable knife i've ever handled.
For all these reasons it is a real collector's item. Somehow.

Dan.

How could the shape be responsible of the poor heat treatment?

If considered as a folding knife it looks weird (btw, what about the Cheetah?), less if you consider the full name "dagger à la d'Estaing".
I once handled a Florinox and another from a cutler I have forgotten the name, it is slightly heavier than a same sized dagger, but if properly made not more difficult to handle than a Ka bar, say, especially the custom whose handle was made of a deer's leg (with shoe).

@Chui :
for the camels , I live near Barbès, those who know the XVIIIth will understand.

about the dagger read above.
Never seen any during your travels? Mind you, i've never seen a queen though I was nearly every two weeks in Clapham at Pride & Clarke and Gus Kuhn to get parts for my Commie when the pound was ground-low in the mid-70s... Ahhh those were the days...

I am curious to know were you got that 80/20 thing... I won't argue, but will remain sceptical...
Just to say, I suspect spanish knock-offs are assembled from Thiers components, historically they had the lowest range coming from Spain.

 

[Chui]

@Jolipapa

How to Recognize a Genuine Laguiole Knife - A Comprehensive Guide

Learn to identify authentic Laguiole knives and avoid counterfeits with our comprehensive guide, including key elements, quality criteria, and certificates.

laguiole.store

 

[dantzk8]

How could the shape be responsible of the poor heat treatment?

How could it be ? I was talking of the only one dagger "à la D'Estaing" i've ever handled, the same as the one shown in the opening post.
It's the so said maker who has been responsible, and guilty, of the rendition of the design and of the making, both very bad.
That said, as good as the making could be, my feeling is that the dagger à la D'Estaing has a flaw by design.
The ratio of the lengths of the handle and of the blade when the knife is opened is unsuitable (too short handle in regard of the blade).
The problem could be solved by lengthening the handle but then, in the closed position, the exposed blade portion would be too short.

Dan.

 

[Jolipapa]

@Jolipapa

How to Recognize a Genuine Laguiole Knife - A Comprehensive Guide

Learn to identify authentic Laguiole knives and avoid counterfeits with our comprehensive guide, including key elements, quality criteria, and certificates.

laguiole.store

View attachment 2106114

Mr Valatte own words : "Vous n'en verrez pas beaucoup comme ça à Laguiole" you won't see many like that in Laguiole!

There's another explanation to this impressively shocking (unsourced) figure : just make the buzz.
Laguiole knives makers are lobbying very hard for years to get an IGP, Indication Géographique Protégée. Thus Thiers, being outside Aveyron limits would no more be allowed to sell Laguioles.
That would be the answer to the bad trick Thiers makers played them when they invented a money maker, the Thiers knife which they can't make.
Got it? Thiers 1 Laguiole 0
Clochemerle...

How could it be ? I was talking of the only one dagger "à la D'Estaing" i've ever handled, the same as the one shown in the opening post.
It's the so said maker who has been responsible, and guilty, of the rendition of the design and of the making, both very bad.
That said, as good as the making could be my feeling is that the dagger à la D'Estaing has a flaw by design.
The ratio of the lengths of the handle and of the blade when the knife is opened is unsuitable.
The problem could be solved by lengthening the handle but then, in the closed position, the exposed blade portion would be too short.

Dan.

I understand, but the topic is not about heat treatment.

About the pattern itself I have no opinion. There must be some reason for cutlers to still make some, including larger brands like Bargeon or Florinox. It is a classic pattern older than most traditionnals, that's enough to raise an interest in it, no less, no more.

 

[dantzk8]

I understand, but the topic is not about heat treatment.

About the pattern itself I have no opinion. There must be some reason for cutlers to still make some, including larger brands like Bargeon or Florinox. It is a classic pattern older than most traditionnals, that's enough to raise an interest in it, no less, no more.

Quote of the opening post : "Anyone have any input on this knife? Value, or style?"
My Input was about the heat treatment of this particular knife. Right in topic.

I don't discuss the interest some could have for this pattern. I don't discuss the tradition or the classicism of this pattern. I certainly wouldn't discuss the reasons, for some French cutlers to still make such a pattern. I'm too old for fairy tales.
I would have liked to talk with you about the relevance of the design of the D'Estaing dagger. Unfortunately you have no opinion.

Dan.