Materials or Design and Function?

I think the real question is why compromise when there are so many good knives out there.

Why get something dodgy when for the price there will be better performers.
 
For me the knife must feel good in hand and be pleasurable to deploy and close/clip in my pocket or I won’t keep it. Visual appeal and design are next followed by blade steel last.

These days I tend to pass on 8Cr13Mov and mystery surgical steel, but I’ve found 9Cr18Mov to be pretty decent.
 
I am a sucker for traditional steels over the latest super steels. A nicely done carbon steel blade or simple stainless goes a long way for me. I do have a couple of knives that I got because I liked the design which came with much higher end steels than I would normally consider. I didn't buy them for the steel except to say that I figured I didn't have any knives with CTS-XHP or S90V. Neither would have been my first choice of blade steel, but I was not unhappy with them either.
@pinnah : /dev/null. Well played sir.
 
To be honest, i've accumalated more than a life times worth of working knives.
So that any new knife design on the horizon which catches my fancy; would primarily be yet another "want".
It would be chosen based upon its fit and finish, ergonomics and suitability for the application in which it is designed for.
So as much as i would have appreciated something with superior edge holding abilities, i am very much resigned to the fact that sometimes the additional cost of having such a luxury doesn't make economic sense when its basicslly not going to be the sole knife for me to toy around with in this lifetime.
 
I think I am like many people here it isn't just that some materials are bad but more so that some materials are a red flag as they are frequently used when there is poor QC and or consistency with end product. I also can be more partial to where it is from that what it is made of. My preferences to build location is impacted by reputations of those places for their quality control and some places are near exclusive users of some materials furthering where material can serve as an indicator of something more to check into. I will admit like many China is on my list for places I avoid however there are some companies producing in China that have a reputation for producing items at a respectable and worthy quality level and most of them are not using some of the reg flag materials.
 
I think it doesn't really matter to me as long as the knife is made well and is quality. I would not pass on a knife if I like the looks and build just because its 8cr or lower, there are lots of cool knives I like that are 440 and work very well.

I do not look down upon those who prefer higher steels though, because those steels really are better, its just not all of us need those steels all the time.
 
clearkevin said:
Do you have any knives that you love but which are sporting a less than stellar steel?
Click to expand...
Not for what I paid and expected from the steel. I think that really is the crux of this question. Don't pay for and keep knives (with a certain steel) that are more than what you think they are worth.
 
I generally don't buy anything that isn't well-made and from a reputable company. It just so happens that those requirements, for me, generally preclude nearly all of the 8cr13mov and 420HC knives out there. If Spyderco made something I liked out of those steels, then I'd buy it.

The way I see it, life is too short to carry a decent knife when I've already got so many great ones.
 
For me, the geometry is the most important thing. As such I choose a SAK over far better steels designed with worse geometry because in the real world, the SAK will cut better and longer with my day to day usage.
 
Steel > Design

The reason is design is a lot more subjective and open to someones interpretation. As you can have a functionally amazing desighn, but if someone thinks its ugly and doesn't like it, then it's pointless.
 
For me design and function are more important than materials

While a lot of manufacturer advertise on m390 blades I prefer to get a better design with a cheaper steel

8cr is fine for light tasks... I have it on a Kershaw Atmos.... considering the construction and purpose of this knife I see nothing wrong in 8cr
 
Depends on what I want a knife for. For edc I choose all 3 because yes, I DO use my knife at work enough to need more edge retention than vg10. S30v is the minimum but why not buy m4 or hap40 and sharpen monthly instead of every couple days. I also want it to work well and look at least decent.

Recreation, form and function. Steel isn’t as important and I’ve started liking the simpler steels because ease of sharpening is more important to me. I don’t need super edge holding on a knife that will whittle a stick...maybe, while I’m out. It should look cool as hell though. This is my love hate relationship with moras. They’re a dream to use but pretty generic in the looks department.

Kitchen, function all the way. Forcshner is what I have but I also like cheap Kiwi brand knives. They sharpen up in seconds and I throw them in the dishwasher then the drawer. I want to cook and eat more than I want to admire the knife I’m using. :D
 
Last edited:
clearkevin said:
I would like to hear everyone's take on this, if you see a design that you really like or perhaps you even get a knife in hand and think it's comfortable and has descent lock up and deployment but then you see the steel is 8CR or 440 or some other budget steel. Do you pass on it? I ask because I have experienced many times telling people about what I think is a rather good knife but it has 8CR13MOV and the response is a resounding "nope" the steel sucks. First do we really used our knives enough that edge retention needs to be a major consideration? Second are you always happy to pay more for better steel? Two examples come to mind the Large Pilar I like the Satin better but it's only available in 8CR, another knife that fits this description is the CRKT Caligo fantastic knife but with 8CR. I just picked on these two models because I think most are familiar with them but many others could be mentioned. Do you have any knives that you love but which are sporting a less than stellar steel?
Click to expand...

Kevin,
(No sarcasm intended) congratulations you made a post based on the thought process of a real knife consumer:thumbsup:.Design,comfort,lock technology,and materials should always come before the blade steel.More people out there don't understand that what goes into the design and blade craftsmanship shapes the cost...steel grade is only a fraction of the cost.

People don't like two realities here...

*The oldest and most popular American knife manufacturers weren't made popular based on premium steels.Nothing wrong with premium steels at all for high performance but they are merely a delay to the fact that it will be tossed out when it's out of blade life.You can't walk into an antique shop and see plenty of old carbon steel bladed knives with plenty of life in them.I see people these days jumping on premium and super steel knives with little emphasis on design and just eating it up on recommendation.

*The gamut of mass production materials like Kraton rubber,Zytel,G-10,and aluminum on steel liners still works just fine...everybody has their preference.Micarta works but I'd give props to fiberglass infused materials instead.Carbon fiber and titanium are just aesthetics really and don't justify increased cost...cheap steel or not.Some people consider that mass-production scale materials are 'junk' or 'cheap' just because it's common and then want to whine about the aesthetic materials not being used at cost.

I can promise you a lot of the people that disagree with my view are the following...
*They've been brainwashed by other knife snobs from the get go.

*They're new to knives and probably never used any of the mass production brands they judge.Knives priced for the working-class are not a "beautiful thing" quoting a YouTuber who's views I don't share in his whining.The man would complain over a $7 knife.

*Cheap steels would probably work fine for them but they don't like the idea of it being widely used.People also who haven't felt out their usage factors.

As long as YOU like the knives you buy...the hell with the pseudo-elitists on here high-fiving each other with their snobbery.Probably read the forums for years and bought a Sebenza one day as their 1st actual knife...all of a sudden they're an 'expert/knife enthusiast' and know what we all need:rolleyes:.
 
Last edited:
The edge geometry will matter more to performance than steel, which could be considered part of the “design.” If you’re comparing the importance of design aesthetics vs steel than that is apples to oranges.
 
clearkevin said:
First do we really used our knives enough that edge retention needs to be a major consideration?
Click to expand...
I do yes DEFINITELY, NO QUESTION , oh boy do I, that's affirmative.
but
I carry plenty of knives I like or even love and some I am over the moon for such as my Kershaw Strobe that have less than super steel.
I just use those to open packages (non box tape packages), cut string, etc.
For the challenging work I busssout the M4 or the HAP-40 or the CTS-XHP etc., etc., etc., etc.,
I just love high end tool steel ! ! !
clearkevin said:
Second are you always happy to pay more for better steel?
Click to expand...
ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS ! ALWAYS !

And pay a lot more to get it. Go ahead Kershaw put M4 in the Strobe and watch me lap it up and growl at anybody that tries to take it away from me.
clearkevin said:
Do you have any knives that you love but which are sporting a less than stellar steel?
Click to expand...
ALL of my Case Trappers, and I have a whole pile of them.
ComeonCaseOhpleasepleasepleasewtfdudesitstime.
Sorry when I get that excited and emotional I don't use spaces.
 
Larrin said:
The edge geometry will matter more to performance than steel
Click to expand...
I respect your work but come to work with me for just one day and you will be barking up another particle accelerator. Not that I cut anything all that difficult or for very long but it is night and day the diff when I do. Trust me I've done everything there is to do to an edge, geometry wise and toothy wise.
M4 and HAP-40 with stock factory Spyderco edge geometry and a couple of others I won't bore you with just make anything else (including S110V) look like assembly line rejects. Narrow geometry, wide geometry, convex, microbevels, toothy, polished (which actually works better for my push cut trimming), stropping, steeling / burnishing.

Plain old sharpening using the Edge Pro and two or three Shapton Glass stones at the stock geometry of around 15° to 18° ps at the stock behind the edge thickness of 18 to 20 some thou (I would go much thinner if I ever had reason to reprofile these things) and that goes three, four, five weeks and will still shave.
ANY lesser steel like . . . you name it BD-1, Case SS / CV, SAK, even S35VN (lower hardness), VG-10, 420, on and on and on . . .
dead in from one day to a week. Without fail.

You can have my high hardness tool steel when you cut through my cold dead fingers with your puny, girlyman, "easy to sharpen", low hardness, tungsten free, funny metal.

He said with an Arnold accent ;) :mad:
:)
 
I didn’t say the steel doesn’t matter. I said the edge geometry is more important.
 
pinnah said:
My bike is steel
Click to expand...
Mine as well. Is there anything else worth considering that doesn't offend the eye or the pocket book ( keeping in mind I am around carbon fiber and heat treated Alu on a daily basis ) . . . I think not.
Ti . . . wellllllll . . . no (ish) still has birdsheet welds and no nickel plating. Never seen a broken one though (can't say that for those other two abominations . . . oh dear me no).
:thumbsup: :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top