Matriarch musings, handle color

C

chrisJohn

Joined
Oct 4, 1998
Messages
296
First off, all the Matriarch buyers should thank Sal for being gracious enough to make these available to forumites. I disagree with Spyderco's policy not to make such defensive knives available in the United States as it smacks being too preoccupied with the political correct aspects of our market economy. As a runner, its been tough finding something light and corrosion resistant enough to stick in my waistband while running for purely defensive reasons. Matriarchs fit these requirements prefectly.

Anyway… The scans have been up for a few days so I won't go into a description. Gray handles are a big improvement over black, as was released to S.A. and Israel, but personally I think a load color like orange would really fit the Matriarch. Then one could really refer to it as a "rescue" knife, seat belt cutter, etc. Not to mention that orange handles really show up if you drop the knife in a low light environment. Color makes a big difference in first impressions, as seen by reactions to multi colored endura's as compared to black handles ones. Other than black handles get "neat knife", black handles get, "ooh, that looks awful dangerous."

The volcano grip is much more tactilely secure than that of the older enduras. Big improvement there

The black pocket clip doesn't kiss the handle, leaving about 1/8 space. Personally like tip up carry.

The opening hole isn't chamfered, but all my older Spydercos are. What gives? Neither was my Starmate. I prefer chamfered holes greatly as they seem to aid in opening and aren't as rough on my thumb. Much like a relieved magazine well, a little cutting goes a long way towards ease of insertion or in this case opening.

There is slight thumb rest, but it's slick. A few grooves would enhance thumb placement tremendously and with this design in a forward grip.

Overall another great tool.


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"Women bring life into the world
and much death, for they sway the
destinies of men." -Anneas
 
ChrisJohn - Thanx for the kind words.

Re: Polical correctness, Please keep in mind that from the manufacturers point of view, a certain amount is necessary if one is to be a responsible American company.

Although I must admit that Michelle is considering marketing the Matriarch to / through LEO channels (which includes Martial arts).

We can't guarantee that all of the Matriarch ELUs are responsible joggers.

We can guarantee that if enough of the Matriarchs get into the wrong hands and end up in court enough times?...remember when butterfly's were legal?

Orange is an interesting concept. Let's continue to muse;

Who agrees with ChrisJohn that an orange handle would be desirable? and why?

BTW We had planned to use the pink/orange color for the trainers in this as all of the future LEO pieces. I believe trainers MUST be a diffeent and bright color from the "live" piece"

Also, who agrees that there should be finger grooves on the back of the hump?

sal
 
I can't see the harm in grooves on the hump. As a tip-up piece, there's no danger of snagging as I find the Military can. And the usual argumant against grooving is that it will tear up the hand during prolonged hard use. I'm still mulling over Vince's point that a folder rarely sees this sort of use, but I think we can agree that the Matriarch won't.

A bright color would certainly give it a "Rescue" look, and would also say "I have nothing to hide." This could mean a lot in the casual encounter with a LEO, to say nothing of in the courtroom.

The Matriarch/Civilian are a different breed of knife, true defensive pieces rather than "folding fighters" marketed for defense - they deserve an appearance that will distance them from the tactical crowd. I think we all agree that if the knife industry is ever crucified for the sins of humanity, the way the gun industry has been, "tactical knives" are where the trouble will start.

On a final note, surveys of prison inmates convicted of robbery and assault crimes have revealed one central concern on the minds of such criminals as they choose their victims. Not "will I get caught." Not "will I go to jail." It's "are they armed?" Even the most inexperienced mugger will generally pass up a target they fear is armed. I don't think there will ever be enough Matriarchs around for the average criminal to recognize that orange shape in the pocket, but you never know... maybe it could even be a deterrent.

Just throwing that out for discussion. I think a bright color is worth a try, but it might not fly with the tactically obsessed modern buyer.

-Drew
 
Sal

Thanks for the Matriarchs.

Now as to handle color. Several years ago Toy guns started coming with blaze orange parts somewhere on them. IIRC there were too many DUMB crooks getting killed when they pulled a plastic gun on someone that had a real one. If you ask me they were asking for it, sorta' like adding HTH to the gene pool.

Look around at the local hardware store tool department. There are all kinds of tools with blaze orange, neon green, or other bright colored handles. These include all kinds of Utility Knives.

I tend to agree with Chrisjohn and Corduroy.
Bright colors tend to say TOOL rather than tactical. If its bright you must have it for a normal use. Rather than one of those "nasty black things" that is easy to hide. (Not my opinion but that of most of the people out there in the world.)

Look at the bright colors. They just could help.

Haven't got mine yet so I don't have an opinion about the finger grooves.

Dwight
 
The Matriarch is a scary knife and if it ever shows up in court the reporters, prosecuters, and law makers will love demonizing it. Marketing it as a LEO tool would help a bit but keeping it out of the courts is probably best.

I like the orange handle idea since it makes it look more rescue and less ninja/tactical/assasin/scary. I also like Corduroy's idea of visible deterence but I am not sure whether I would want to advertise a defensive weapon. I'll have to think on that one.

I definetly agree that a trainer must be immediatly obvious. My own preference a red blade, paint or anodize, with yellow stripes around the handle. I think a pattern is more recognizable than a colour code in case of colour blindness or poor light especially if you have multiple colours (black, grey and maybe orange)for live weapons. Just a thought.

I don't object to a grooved thumb rest but it strikes me as more practical for a thrusting weapon which the Matriarch is not.

I have also noticed that the holes aren't chamfered anymore. This is one of those small things that make a big difference in how comfortable a tool is to use. Please bring back the chamfer.

 
An international orange handle, ala the Rescue, would be nice (I do SAR, so I'm probably biased). Advantages include more easy to locate when dropped and less threatening looking, yet still retaining defensive capabilities. (And how about a plain-edge for airline carry Sal? No pesky serrations, and with an orange handle, a rescue tool - especially with EMT, LEO, SAR, etc. credentials.)

Unfortunately, my guess is the typical ELU buys more of anything in oh so tactical black. Out of curiosity, what's the breakdown between sales of black and orange Rescues?

As for the trainers, use red. ASP's Red Gun (tm) "training aids" are pretty much the defacto standard in law enforcement, military, and the better private firearms training programs. You see that muted red, you immediately think inert.

The problem with orange and pink for trainers is you currently have production knives in those colors (unless you use some different blend). Also, there are certain folks in this often male dominated part of society that would refuse to even consider a pink trainer. I remember the reactions of some of the more macho members of an Erik Remmen ClipIt class when the pink "drone" trainers came out.

Thumb grooves, tell you next week after a certain package arrives from Golden and I do some testing.

Joel
 
I too, am awaiting the brown truck's delivery of a couple of Matriarch's, so no comment on the thumb-notch issue.

Orange rescue handle would be a very positive option for this model for the reasons given. I would definitely have to try it for use, both on and off duty.

Chamfer of thumb holes is definitely going to be conspicuous by it's absence! Please make them all that way, I have come to expect it from my Spydie Holes.
Brian
 
One thing about the thumb grooves. My suggestion to add them was not just a cosmetic request, as on some knives they tend to be more cosmetic than actually functional.
The old aluminum/kraton Civilian did not need thumb ramp grooves due to the relative placement of one's hand, or at least mine, being further back along the handle.

The Matriarch on the other hand fosters a more forard grip and unlike the Endura has a much less pronounced hump. Unfortuantely, one really has to get some hand time with one to appreciate this. I posted pics with the Civilian and the Matriarch. Comparing the two, the configuration of the Civilan fosters a longer grip, while the Matriarch handle forces the thumb past the hump relatively easily. Maybe I just have a long thumb, but I'd be interested to see if other Matriarch owners have the same experience.

Civilian.jpg


Matriarch.jpg


From the pics you can see that my thumb is not even close to flat on the Matriarch, and thus needs some source of friction to hold it there.



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"Women bring life into the world
and much death, for they sway the
destinies of men." -Anneas
 
One of my grey Matriarchs will be doing car duty, probably in the center console. Orange would be easier to locate in the event of an accident. I have an orange Rescue Jr....

Oh, I'll reiterate that trainers should be red, like the ASP red guns.

[This message has been edited by Ewok (edited 12 September 1999).]
 
I belive that one of the main uses of a defensive knife is not to be noticed until needed. An orange knife cliped to my pocket would atract more attention than a black (or hopefully) grey color. Speaking of colors, where is that brown truck?
 
Nobody's saying they shouldn't be offered in black and grey, just that orange would be a good addition.
 
On the subject of chamfering of openi9ng holes I feel that non chamfered holes are good, they provide a more positive grip on the thumb. I recently aquired a 2 Blackhawks (on sale) and chamfered the hole on the one just to find that the standard non chamfered hole provided more positve thumb grip when opening (and it seems especially with small holes).
 
ChrisJohn,

I may have just the "fix" for your Matriarch grip. You're using a "2+2" grip, similar to the Police model, right? Two fingers on the first handle groove, two on the second, and the extra handle just serves to cover the point. For me, I can shift my grip back so that only my index finger is in the first groove, my next two fingers on the second, and my oinky on the "excess" portion. This feels closer to the Civilian's grip, IMO. Just a thought.

-Drew
 
Drew, I agree totally, but that grips isn't instinctive for me. Yea, I can shift my hand around, but it doesn't immediately go there.

------------------
"Women bring life into the world
and much death, for they sway the
destinies of men." -Anneas
 
just one comment. training weapons are red.

be it asp or whoever started it, when i see red, its a drill weapon.

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'Till next time,
Rich the kite guy
 
A somewhat rational opportunistic predator should avoid a confrontation with somebody with an Endura or Delica visibly clipped to a pocket, as much as with somebody with a Matriarch. How about making an all-toothy Endura and an all-plain Delica (for airline travel) in hunter/rescue orange?

BTW, I like the grey handle on my Matriarch. It's not flashy, but it's a break from the usual raven-black.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
I WAS WRONG!!! In inspecting my 2 Matriarchs fresh off the truck today, I have to recant my earlier statement about chamfering the thumb-hole. Deon's point about the sharper edge of the non-chamfered hole being easier to engage with the thumb is true for me as well.

I like them this way.
(still would like to se an orange handled-model, though)
Brian
 
I would assume that the courts would be more likely to view the user as more credible when claiming self-defense if the knife used was of a color that did not lend itself to concealment, but then, I'm not a lawyer type.

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Knowledge without understanding is knowledge wasted.
Understanding without knowledge is a rare gift - but not an impossibility.
For the impossible is always possible through faith. - Bathroom graffiti, gas station, Grey, TN, Dec, 1988

AKTI Member #A000831


 
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