Maxace Knives and heat treating.

Leo Greer

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Messages
859
Recently, I’ve got my eye on a folder in one of the “super hard” steels, like the Rex steels, s110, s125v, etc, etc. One that really stuck out to me was the Maxace Killer Whale in ASP-60. ASP-60 is a really uncommon steel, but according to knife Nerds, it can get to over 220 on a CATRA (@68 RC).

Given that the killer whale is a large titanium frame lock with a design that I liked, I was kinda hooked.

And then I started thinking about the heat treat. Especially with such a rare and extreme steel, the HT is extremely important, and I’ve been hearing things about Maxace’s HT.

Opinions? Thoughts?
 
IIRC Maxace is one of those brands who doesn't have a good reputation for making things of a good quality but I might be mistaken so if I am wrong someone please correct me.
 
Maxace is made by Stedemon. I have two Stedemon folders, one higher end and both are excellent. Maxace seems to be higher dollar and I've read good reviews on them.
 
Most "expensive" Chinese folders I know of tend to put most of their production costs into fit and finish, especially those from "smaller" brands or those with "flashier" designs. Their HT might very well be on par with average industry standard, but I would not hope for anything beyond that.

Keep in mind that China is not particularly well known for development or production of high-end tool steels, which makes it even more difficult and expensive to do something like CPK or MagnaCut in China. Also, most of their domestic customers buy flashy well-made folders as toys, not practical tools, so they care quite a bit less about actual HT performances anyways.

There is a Killer Whale tip test video I recently saw on Chinese website, which sparked quite some nasty arguments. Let me see if I can find a way to post it here.
 
Any luck with that video? Can you link the page

Tip Tests

Not sure if you can watch it. It's a Chinese website. I watched it w/ VPN. Killer Whale part starts at 6:40.

Basically he did a pine wood tip test w/ a "Green Spike" D2 folder, a Killer Whale, a "District 9" M390, and a Hinderer.
Killer Whale broke the entire tip off at 1st attempt; D2 lasted a while before finally giving in; District 9 and Hinderer had no tip problems.

I wouldn't be surprised at all though. ASP-60 is a non-PM steel introduced no later than 1975, yet contains a rather extreme amount of Carbon, Tungsten, Vanadium, Cobalt, among other elements. KnifeSteelNerds puts ASP-60 in the same category with Maxamet and Rex-121.

Super Hard High Speed Steels

After knowing it's a super hard non-PM steel, I wouldn't expect the steel to have any toughness to begin with. The only thing I'd concern about is whether Maxace's HT can fulfill ASP-60's edge retention potentials.
 
I've had many maxace knives (many butterfly knives) in 14C28N, M390, K110, etc.

I would rate them a solid B. Not the best, but definitely not bad considering their price bracket.

Better than SOG, better than CRKT, on par with artisan, bestech, etc. Not quite there on CiWEvi or Reate yet.

That's just steel performance. Their fit and finish is very good.

Edit: I would add, definitely better than Manly, who also waves the "supersteel at low cost" flag

They tend to run their steels very hard (try sharpening their M390 on a sharpmaker...), just fyi.
 
Tip Tests

Not sure if you can watch it. It's a Chinese website. I watched it w/ VPN. Killer Whale part starts at 6:40.

Basically he did a pine wood tip test w/ a "Green Spike" D2 folder, a Killer Whale, a "District 9" M390, and a Hinderer.
Killer Whale broke the entire tip off at 1st attempt; D2 lasted a while before finally giving in; District 9 and Hinderer had no tip problems.

I wouldn't be surprised at all though. ASP-60 is a non-PM steel introduced no later than 1975, yet contains a rather extreme amount of Carbon, Tungsten, Vanadium, Cobalt, among other elements. KnifeSteelNerds puts ASP-60 in the same category with Maxamet and Rex-121.

Super Hard High Speed Steels

After knowing it's a super hard non-PM steel, I wouldn't expect the steel to have any toughness to begin with. The only thing I'd concern about is whether Maxace's HT can fulfill ASP-60's edge retention potentials.

Thanks for the link. That amount of tip damage is about what I'd expect.

Are you sure ASP60 is non-PM? I was under the impression that PM is required for the manufacture of carbide replacement grades.
 
Tip Tests

Not sure if you can watch it. It's a Chinese website. I watched it w/ VPN. Killer Whale part starts at 6:40.

Basically he did a pine wood tip test w/ a "Green Spike" D2 folder, a Killer Whale, a "District 9" M390, and a Hinderer.
Killer Whale broke the entire tip off at 1st attempt; D2 lasted a while before finally giving in; District 9 and Hinderer had no tip problems.

I wouldn't be surprised at all though. ASP-60 is a non-PM steel introduced no later than 1975, yet contains a rather extreme amount of Carbon, Tungsten, Vanadium, Cobalt, among other elements. KnifeSteelNerds puts ASP-60 in the same category with Maxamet and Rex-121.

Super Hard High Speed Steels

After knowing it's a super hard non-PM steel, I wouldn't expect the steel to have any toughness to begin with. The only thing I'd concern about is whether Maxace's HT can fulfill ASP-60's edge retention potentials.
Your concern was the same I had. I can deal with buying a steel that I know will have 0 toughness; what would bother me would be buying that knife for the purpose of being super hard, and having it then not be because of crappy HT…
 
Thanks for the link. That amount of tip damage is about what I'd expect.

Are you sure ASP60 is non-PM? I was under the impression that PM is required for the manufacture of carbide replacement grades.
Sorry. I was about to say it isn't newest gen PM with finest grain structure. Since it's introduced no later than 1975.

I actually didn't check if it's PM at all or not.
 
Recently, I’ve got my eye on a folder in one of the “super hard” steels, like the Rex steels, s110, s125v, etc, etc. One that really stuck out to me was the Maxace Killer Whale in ASP-60. ASP-60 is a really uncommon steel, but according to knife Nerds, it can get to over 220 on a CATRA (@68 RC).

Given that the killer whale is a large titanium frame lock with a design that I liked, I was kinda hooked.

And then I started thinking about the heat treat. Especially with such a rare and extreme steel, the HT is extremely important, and I’ve been hearing things about Maxace’s HT.

Opinions? Thoughts?
I have the Maxace Sandstorm on order and might get this TSUBOSAN-Japan-Hardness-Tester-Checker to do a rough HRC testing.


 
Killer Whale 2.0 showed up today. Fit and finish, grind symmetry and centering are 100% perfect. The lockup is about 40% with no stick or blade play. The detent is moderately strong with no lash. The contouring and fine texture milling on the handle is very nice, and the grip is comfortable. BTE thickness is low, with small secondary bevels. I won't be doing any tip prying with it.
 
Thanks for the link. That amount of tip damage is about what I'd expect.

Are you sure ASP60 is non-PM? I was under the impression that PM is required for the manufacture of carbide replacement grades.

Sorry. I was about to say it isn't newest gen PM with finest grain structure. Since it's introduced no later than 1975.

I actually didn't check if it's PM at all or not.

Assab, the company that makes ASP-60 (aka PM 60 Superclean), also makes Vanadis/Vanax Superclean. It's part of the voestalpine steel conglomerate, along with Bohler-Uddeholm. I would be shocked if they still used first-generation PM tech, especially alongside the current-generation tech used to make Vanax.
 
Killer Whale 2.0 showed up today. Fit and finish, grind symmetry and centering are 100% perfect. The lockup is about 40% with no stick or blade play. The detent is moderately strong with no lash. The contouring and fine texture milling on the handle is very nice, and the grip is comfortable. BTE thickness is low, with small secondary bevels. I won't be doing any tip prying with it.
Can you please keep us updated on your experience with the steel especially the edge retention,on the fence about getting a $260 knife with out a little more info. I just got me a couple kizer sheepdog in cpm10v and have done some extended cardboard and oak cutting tests - I can say IMHO these are done very well, very good experience 👍👍👍 not super scientific but I do have lot of other super steel knives,so I have a good comparison base
 
Can you please keep us updated on your experience with the steel especially the edge retention,on the fence about getting a $260 knife with out a little more info. I just got me a couple kizer sheepdog in cpm10v and have done some extended cardboard and oak cutting tests - I can say IMHO these are done very well, very good experience 👍👍👍 not super scientific but I do have lot of other super steel knives,so I have a good comparison base

I haven't cut any hardwood with it yet, but I've cut plenty of cardboard, and I've done some intentional side loading/prying in yellow pine. The edge seems very stable and I haven't had any observable dulling, chips or rolls. It will still shave hair and cut notebook cleanly. The factory edge feels fairly polished, not exceptionally toothy. BTE thickness is about 0.015" near the ricasso. I haven't put it on the KME yet, but it's probably going to be a bit difficult to sharpen.

Predicted CATRA gives ASP60 @64HRC about the same edge retention as Maxamet @69HRC. I would not expect it to be exceptionally tough, but it should be tougher than Spyderco's Maxamet...closer to the 10V/K390/Rex 45 range. I'm fairly confident that it's going to significantly out-cut those steels.

Construction methodology is clean and simple, and it has very nice internal milling. It comes with a set of spares for all of the steel hardware, including the pivot and lockbar insert. The pivot pin is D-keyed to the lockbar-side frame, and it has a detent ramp milled into the tang. The backspacer is mounted by the scale screw/pin at the back and a floating steel pin in the middle. F&F, lockup, detent and action are far superior to any of the Spyderco Taichung framelocks I've ever owned. I had no problems anodizing the scales, clip and backspacer to a nice 27V blue...

maxace_killer_whale_2.0_mkw203_27v_anodization_960.jpg


I like the knife enough that I've bought four of them...one MKW203 user, plus one of each colorway (MKW201/202/203) as safe queens/spares. Given how rare this steel is, I'd get one while they're still available. AFAIK the only other production ASP60 knife is an early iteration of the Maxace Mammoth that never showed up at any USA dealers. Also, the Mammoth is more of a tech demo/paperweight than a knife, while the KW2 has a very nice design.

I should also mention that the blade is a full 4" as measured from the most forward point of the handle, not the official spec of 3.875".
 
I haven't cut any hardwood with it yet, but I've cut plenty of cardboard, and I've done some intentional side loading/prying in yellow pine. The edge seems very stable and I haven't had any observable dulling, chips or rolls. It will still shave hair and cut notebook cleanly. The factory edge feels fairly polished, not exceptionally toothy. BTE thickness is about 0.015" near the ricasso. I haven't put it on the KME yet, but it's probably going to be a bit difficult to sharpen.

Predicted CATRA gives ASP60 @64HRC about the same edge retention as Maxamet @69HRC. I would not expect it to be exceptionally tough, but it should be tougher than Spyderco's Maxamet...closer to the 10V/K390/Rex 45 range. I'm fairly confident that it's going to significantly out-cut those steels.

Construction methodology is clean and simple, and it has very nice internal milling. It comes with a set of spares for all of the steel hardware, including the pivot and lockbar insert. The pivot pin is D-keyed to the lockbar-side frame, and it has a detent ramp milled into the tang. The backspacer is mounted by the scale screw/pin at the back and a floating steel pin in the middle. F&F, lockup, detent and action are far superior to any of the Spyderco Taichung framelocks I've ever owned. I had no problems anodizing the scales, clip and backspacer to a nice 27V blue...

maxace_killer_whale_2.0_mkw203_27v_anodization_960.jpg


I like the knife enough that I've bought four of them...one MKW203 user, plus one of each colorway (MKW201/202/203) as safe queens/spares. Given how rare this steel is, I'd get one while they're still available. AFAIK the only other production ASP60 knife is an early iteration of the Maxace Mammoth that never showed up at any USA dealers. Also, the Mammoth is more of a tech demo/paperweight than a knife, while the KW2 has a very nice design.

I should also mention that the blade is a full 4" as measured from the most forward point of the handle, not the official spec of 3.875".
Nice, thanks for the little review and all your thoughts. Looks like a very interesting piece. Please keep us updated on your use with the steel and what you think after some more use 👌
 
Maxace is some of the few companies that does their homework on heat treating and testing their products, there is a lot of videos of those test but most of the time only in chinese Here some examples:
Maxace killer whale in Vanadis10 (66hcr test at the end)
Maxace Amber test
Vanadis10 different knife brand testing
HCR test on a Maxace heron k110
Beating tests:
Big folder
The new killer whale 2 (NSFW @ 6:30)
Huh, now that's some stuff I never would have found. Thank you! Looks pretty dang good from those videos.
 
Back
Top