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- Thread starter Sufler
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Oh jeez, here we go again... It's an Eberle Operator. And I can guarantee you that if you ruck around for a few hours every day starting at 60 pounds and working your way up, you'll find your body will adjust and carry much more than you think it can.I think you're right, though I am a little unclear on whether it's all vacuum sealed insides a Mystery Ranch or Eberlstock pack.These things are always so confusing.
Cougar Allen
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I played this game on a recent JMT trip, this September. I took a 42L pack and carried stuff for a 2 hundred miles. My pack was definately overstuffed for 3/4 of the trip.
If you are walking long distances, don't carry less than a 60L pack, one that pretends to carry loads of up to 50 or 60 lbs.
My overloaded suspension punished me pretty good. I also had way too much stuff lashed to the outside of the pack, as a consequence of taking a slightly too small pack.
You want a 60L pack which could carry heavy loads, if you go far.
If you are walking long distances, don't carry less than a 60L pack, one that pretends to carry loads of up to 50 or 60 lbs.
My overloaded suspension punished me pretty good. I also had way too much stuff lashed to the outside of the pack, as a consequence of taking a slightly too small pack.
You want a 60L pack which could carry heavy loads, if you go far.
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What exactly did you put in this pack? Lead bars?
Your pack is a bit less (3,800 ci) than twice the size of my pack (LL Bean Rucksack @2,000 ci), If I went out of my way to overload my pack I might (maybe) be able to hit 40-50lbs. So you're saying you can fit 2.5 times that in a pack less than 2 times the size. But just for the sake of argument I'll overload my pack with anything that could ever be considered practical, and not very much so at that.
Let's say I fill the main compartment up with 2 liter soda bottles filled with water (water being generally heavier than most things that will take up the same volume) density@1g/ml or 1kg/1L (meaning that for every liter, I should increase the weight by 1kg (about 2.2 lbs) I could squeeze in about 6, that adds up to a little less than 27 lbs. uh oh, well shy of my estimate, but I'll overload the outside too. I'll stick a 5lb splitting axe and an 8lb sledge hammer in the slots on either side. and load the outside compartments up with my normal stuff FAK, socks, fire stuff, food, whose weight is negligable but we'll add a pound for simplicity that up to 27+12+1=39. My tent and sleeping crap (to be strapped to the bottom)would have to weigh 11 lbs to hit my estimate, but heck, we'll say they do so I had to get pretty ridiculous to get to 50 lbs.
But, even though yours isn't quite double the size of mine, we'll double the weight giving us 100lbs that's: 24 liters of water (12, 2L bottles), 2 8lb hammers, 2 5lb axes, 22lbs of sleeping gear, and 2 llbs of extra crap and you'll hit 103, maybe. So tell us, what did you load it with? What were the weights of each one of these objects? Be specific, because short of solid metal bars of some kind, I doubt you could fit 125 or 150, whatever lbs of gear into that pack.
125-150lbs is A LOT of weight, it's one thing to lift it momentarily, it's another completely to go for a little 10 mile walk with it strapped to your back.
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Thanks for clearing that up. Depending on which post one is reading, one might think you carried that weight in an MR Nice, an Operator or even an old Alice pack. Hopefully you can see why some of us are confused.
As for the training regimen "tips",
is all I am going to say here.curious what pack you used that you were dissatisfied w/? if you had to do it again, what pack would you chose?
< plan on doing the JMT summer after next
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I have/had LOTS of packs. At one point I used one knife and circulated packs. I've basically come down to the ones I like for personal use, plus a few for friends should they need em. The three it's come down to are the Operator for BOB, the Maverick for recreational backpacking, and a Skareb 40/Kelty Redwing for overnighters and dayhikes. The ALICE is a sentamental toy and gets used mostly for physical fitness. A bolt gun, a shotgun and a semi automatic rifle, a revolver, ammunition and cleaning kit alone weighs in at around 50 pounds... you add 2 3 liter bladders, a water bottle or two and water weight alone adds up. Knives, axe, machete... first aid kit... tent... sleeping bag... it adds up fast.
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50 lbs of guns
15.5 lbs of water (assuming 2 .5L bottles)
That's 65.5lbs (ignoring the absurdity of the notion of carying 3 long guns and a pistol), you've still got a ways to go.
Give more weights, it's not enough to say it adds up. Estimated weights for everything please. You just kind of trailed off at the end....
Also how are these things attached to the pack, you can add up all the weights you want but if they don't fit onto the pack, it's irrelavent.
15.5 lbs of water (assuming 2 .5L bottles)
That's 65.5lbs (ignoring the absurdity of the notion of carying 3 long guns and a pistol), you've still got a ways to go.
Give more weights, it's not enough to say it adds up. Estimated weights for everything please. You just kind of trailed off at the end....
Also how are these things attached to the pack, you can add up all the weights you want but if they don't fit onto the pack, it's irrelavent.
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The absurdity is that in the event of a hostile evacuation you can fight your way out. Whether it be street corner to street corner in the city or ridge to ridge, you would theoretically have every niche filled, or better yet a firearm you can distribute to friends and family as well. I have no idea if, how or when a situation like that might occur, but the point is you could grab what fits the needs at the time and split. Not to mention, the capability to take fowl, medium and large game at a plethora of ranges is very handy... or if you can only find one type of ammunition on the move... at least you still have something. This line of thought has split into 'why not multiple packs?' If you're packing gear to support multiple people, then they can pack too. Lately I've been working on specialized kits-first aid/hygiene/ pointman (navigation, self defense, trailblazing, etc) /hunting fishing and trapping/food prep, storage and cooking/shelter construction etc etc etc. If you can build specialized comprehensive kits that one person can carry and take up maybe 30% of their packable weight, and maybe a personal altoids tin kit pertaining to each necessary area per person in the event of separation, you can still conceivably carry enough to support a larger group of people for a longer period of time. I've got a ways to go on these individual kits-some have packs, some don't, some still need their comprehensive kits, some don't... the one I'm most hung up on is the first aid kit because it gets extremely expensive very fast and most of it has an expiration date... maintaining something like that is a bit of an investment. This would cut down significantly the amount of weight I'd need to pack, specifically the firearms and ammunition...
Cougar Allen
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What??? No reloading bench? I never go anywhere without at least one reloading press, often two -- and of course you need a scale, powder measure, cartridge reamer, bullet molds ... the weight adds up a bit, but I wouldn't think of bugging out without it....
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Just one picture is all we ask. Just one picture of the pack, the load and you next to it. With just one picture, you will move us to actually start believing you.
Is that too much to ask?
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Rodger dodger...
tundratrader
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So assuming you are always ready to "bug out" where exactly do you store this 5000 cubic inch backpack on your bicycle? Let alone three long guns and 150lbs worth of stuff! Maybe old Lance should take up your training program.
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G'day CWL
I know that I am about to put a Bullseye on my forehead, but since it is long overdue, so be it
I may be Robinson Curoso here, but I consider Wilderness & survival skills to be serious business.
I know these "knowledgeable people" have digital cameras because I've seen plenty of pics of their shiny "real users". Yet I can't recall that many post (if any), that actually show them out & about in the wild. :thumbdn:
Makes me wonder why one of our mods felt the need to post the "put up or shut up 2010" challenge here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699374
Now for those who feel offended by my comments and would question my credentials for making such inflamatory comments, I am more than happy to provide the evidence that my opinions are based on first hand experience in the wilderness :thumbup::thumbup:
But be prepared, I will ask you for yours
Kind regards
Mick
I have asked myself the same question on a number of occasions whenever I see opinion expressed as fact. :thumbup:
I know that I am about to put a Bullseye on my forehead, but since it is long overdue, so be it
I may be Robinson Curoso here, but I consider Wilderness & survival skills to be serious business.
I know these "knowledgeable people" have digital cameras because I've seen plenty of pics of their shiny "real users". Yet I can't recall that many post (if any), that actually show them out & about in the wild. :thumbdn:
Makes me wonder why one of our mods felt the need to post the "put up or shut up 2010" challenge here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699374
Now for those who feel offended by my comments and would question my credentials for making such inflamatory comments, I am more than happy to provide the evidence that my opinions are based on first hand experience in the wilderness :thumbup::thumbup:
But be prepared, I will ask you for yours
Kind regards
Mick
i opened this post hopeing to go to town on this topic, but everyone already has. so i guess i will just say why bug out when you cave one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uSelQNUM5w&feature=relatedand part two lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T51sDlVtKKk&feature=related (i know bobs are good i have to no need for me to get raped on why its good to be prepared to bail or bug out or home. just wanted to lighten the mood cause its getten heavy in here)
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So you couldn't come up with the extra 85lbs?
Also, I said, "ignoring the absurdity of the notion of carying 3 long guns and a pistol", I'll let you keep you're ridiculous amount of weapons, because I don't think you can fit even the 85 lbs of weight you still need, to hit 150. Also where are you putting all of this stuff?
3 firearms plus ammo. and tools. That would be a crushing load even in my USMC days.
Heavy stuff was spread out through the team. Every man carried his primary arm and combat load of ammo, plus some boom boom. Sniper if attached carried his weapon.
Bugout meant to leave an occupied position in a hasty manner, with every bit of stealth possible. Hoping and praying to avoid contact with a superior enemy force. Because to get into a firefight with a larger enemy force whan you are a small light unit is suicidal at best. Contrary to hollywood.
My bugout plan and equipment goes very light on offense, heavy on stealth and avoidance. When it comes to foraging I can produce far more food quietly with traps and snares than with firearms, and don't have to worry about ammo supplies.
Maximize skills, minimize load
I see far too many of these threads on bugging out concentrating on the idea of engaging an enemy force (of whatever makeup) in combat and being armed to do so. The simple fact is that even if well armed a small unit risks far more than is gained by armed conflict. Evasion and stealth are far better options.
Heavy stuff was spread out through the team. Every man carried his primary arm and combat load of ammo, plus some boom boom. Sniper if attached carried his weapon.
Bugout meant to leave an occupied position in a hasty manner, with every bit of stealth possible. Hoping and praying to avoid contact with a superior enemy force. Because to get into a firefight with a larger enemy force whan you are a small light unit is suicidal at best. Contrary to hollywood.
My bugout plan and equipment goes very light on offense, heavy on stealth and avoidance. When it comes to foraging I can produce far more food quietly with traps and snares than with firearms, and don't have to worry about ammo supplies.
Maximize skills, minimize load
I see far too many of these threads on bugging out concentrating on the idea of engaging an enemy force (of whatever makeup) in combat and being armed to do so. The simple fact is that even if well armed a small unit risks far more than is gained by armed conflict. Evasion and stealth are far better options.
curious what pack you used that you were dissatisfied w/? if you had to do it again, what pack would you chose?
< plan on doing the JMT summer after next
OK, I'm looking at it right now... It says Osprey Stratos 40. Since I have the Large sized one, it holds 42L, not the nominal 40 of its model name.
The mfg. rates it to hold 35 lbs. I didn't weigh my pack, because I knew I was exceeding the weight rating by 10 or 15 lbs (denial? If you don't formally know how overloaded it is, the shoulder straps can't rip out???
1!!!!
)The thing about the JMT is this, plans change and situations change. You will definately want to pop out of the JMT at Devil's Postpile Nat'l Monument and take the $7 bus from the ranger station out to the free shuttle bus located at the giant Mammoth idol near the ski lifts. This takes you into town for resupply, whether at Whole Paycheck (Whole Earth Foods) or more likely, Vons. Food resupply at Vons was ever so slightly limited in selection with slightly high tourist town prices, but pay them anyhow. This is definately once in a lifetime type stuff, and not the time nor place to be too cheapskatish.
Pack recommendation: Cannot tell you an exact model. What I can say, is walk into an REI and look at their $200+ 60Liter packs. All of REI's stuff is quality gear. Get fitted to a quality pack there, and you'll be in good shape.
Other gear I used and recommend for this jaunt:
-Snow Peak Gigapower butane stove. Performed excellent. I used 4x 220g cannisters for the entire trip
-Mountain Hardware 30degree down bag. Don't bring less bag. Storms make everything colder for a couple days, once a week.
-Trek 700 titanium cup. Excellent for coffee & Mountain House
-Mountain House -- avoid the Jamaican entree. hated it with a passion. If you bring freezedried, Tabasco is mandatory. Their Mexican and Chinese and Lasagna ones were very good.
-OR goretex bivy bag.
-those addictive goldfish crackers in the quart rectangular paper sack.
-Bacardi Gold
-cheap lexan teaspoon
-SAK Recruit
-Noxzema(sp?) SPF 70 sunscreen. Buy fresh at the last minute. DO NOT bring last years sunscreen.
-tiny bottle of %100 DEET "Jungle Juice"
-granola bars
-Cliff Bars
-instant OreIda mashed potatos were surprisingly good.
-tortillas+cheese+summer sausage + Tabasco = Excellent fake pizza
I'm 6' and 170lbs. On a diet of 2x 600 calory Mountain House freezedried's plus 4 Cliff Bars plus 2x teabags and an Emergen-C a day, I did OK. This was definately the minimum of food to ALMOST maintain your weight. I lost 6 lbs over the 15 days of the trip.
Bring the smallest, lighted fishing pole you've got. All the prestige high rent fishing is in the first third of the trip, between Tuolumne Meadows and Edison Lake. The absolutely first rate Golden Trout fishing is only found at Sally Keyes lake. Make damn sure you stop here, and fish Sally Keyes. They are huge (for goldens) and will bite easily on anything. I considered all the other lakes as definately less interesting.
The trail is made of sharp granite frags and moon dust. Getting clothese and body clean in a cold environment was a challenge, to put it mildly. Bring a razor, and shave in your coffee cup once every 3 days. The peeps who didn't, looked like bums! Wear shoes that are hard enough on the bottom that you can walk on jagged granite fragments with impunity. My Vasque trail runners were barely adequate, in this regard.