Maximum blade length for fixed blades in CA

Ok as of today I spoke with Officer Warren of the LAPD Mission Station in the San Fernando Valley. I called the station to hear from the horses mouth about a length limit while legally carrying a fixed blade knife (in a sheath on the waist open carry) The officer took the time to research with me Penal Code 20200. And we both came to the conclusion that there is no length limit carrying a fixed blade knife with the exception of when in a public building ( no more than 4 inches) And as a Bonus answer to my questions, Officer Warren also gave me some useful advice, if I were to get stopped by other officers while open carrying my BK-7. He said carry a little piece of paper with the penal code 20200 on it and inform the police officer stopping you that you are not violating California State law. And there isn't a length limit as well, please note the proper wear of a fixed blade in CALIFORNIA is as follows. Penal Code 20200. A knife carried in a sheath that is worn openly suspended
from the waist of the wearer is not concealed within the meaning of
Section 16140, 16340, 17350, or 21310.



I've always had a knife on me, but they're always folders. I want to start carrying a fixed blade on me instead but I don't know if what I want to carry is too long. Any info would help!
 
Ok as of today I spoke with Officer Warren of the LAPD Mission Station in the San Fernando Valley. I called the station to hear from the horses mouth about a length limit while legally carrying a fixed blade knife (in a sheath on the waist open carry) The officer took the time to research with me Penal Code 20200. And we both came to the conclusion that there is no length limit carrying a fixed blade knife with the exception of when in a public building ( no more than 4 inches) And as a Bonus answer to my questions, Officer Warren also gave me some useful advice, if I were to get stopped by other officers while open carrying my BK-7. He said carry a little piece of paper with the penal code 20200 on it and inform the police officer stopping you that you are not violating California State law. And there isn't a length limit as well, please note the proper wear of a fixed blade in CALIFORNIA is as follows. Penal Code 20200. A knife carried in a sheath that is worn openly suspended
from the waist of the wearer is not concealed within the meaning of
Section 16140, 16340, 17350, or 21310.
Do note that while California state law does not have a length limit on openly carried fixed-blades, both the municipality of Los Angeles, and the county of Los Angeles, have a length limit of 3 inches on ANY knife carried openly (blades must be under 3 inches). But there are exceptions to this length limit- if you are carrying for legitimate work-related reasons, or for legitimate recreational reasons (fishing, camping, etc).

I've read the California state knife laws, and the Los Angeles municipal and county knife laws several times and direct from their official sources. I've never seen any mention of a 4 inch blade limit on knives carried into "public buildings". Members of law enforcement don't always know their local knife laws, and sometimes they make mistakes. I'm not saying that I know more than Officer Warren, but if you can provide the penal code that indicates a 4 inch blade limit on knives carried in public buildings I would like to read it. The only statute in the California penal code that I could find that has a blade length limit of 4 inches specifically involves knives carried onto/into airport property (CA pc 171.5).

In my opinion, it's better to ask a lawyer about the law rather than a member of law enforcement.

Officer Warren did give good advice about carrying a copy of CA pc 20200 around with you. But if you are openly carrying ANY knife in Los Angeles with a blade 3 inches long or longer, and if you do not have a "legitimate" reason for carrying it, then CA pc 20200 may not be enough to save you from an arrest.
 
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So a neck knife over the tshirt is not "suspended from the waist" but still clearly visible. How blurry is this line?
 
Carrying the printout of the relevant PC is a good idea, keep in mind that LEOs don't focus on knife laws nearly as much as other things, like firearms for instance. For example, my brother is a full time LEO with a large municipal agency here in TX and his academy training on knife legality was one part of one legal class.

As to the open vs concealed issue in CA, as mentioned fixed blades can't be concealed. As to "open carry"...think Jax Teller if you want to be really on the safe side.
 
So a neck knife over the tshirt is not "suspended from the waist" but still clearly visible. How blurry is this line?
California penal code 20200 describes ONE method of legally carrying a fixed-blade, but not necessarily THE ONLY legal method. One thing is for sure- the CA penal code does not say that it is ILLEGAL to carry a knife hanging around ones neck.

Personally, I wouldn't be worried about an openly carried neck knife in California. But as always, when in doubt about the law, consult an attorney.
 
California penal code 20200 describes ONE method of legally carrying a fixed-blade, but not necessarily THE ONLY legal method. One thing is for sure- the CA penal code does not say that it is ILLEGAL to carry a knife hanging around ones neck.

Personally, I wouldn't be worried about an openly carried neck knife in California. But as always, when in doubt about the law, consult an attorney.

Ok, thanks.
 
I have to respectfully Disagree with you about the length limit. Officer Warren and I looked through the penal code book and researched all subsections. He told me that there is no length limit to fixed blade open carry. And NO I do not need to be on my way hunting or camping nor do I need to Have the blade on me for work purposes. Officer warren also got input from a desk SGT. and the Watch Commander. These are sworn civil servants with the knowledge and the resources to procure the information I called in to inquire about. State of California allows for concealed carry of the folding knives and there is no limit to the blade length. As long as the knife is not banned by PC 16100-17360 or in Part 6/Title 3/Division 5, it is legal. Division 6 of the same title bans knuckles, division 7 bans nunchakus and so on. 17235 does not make Assisted Openers(AO) illegal. However, depending on the particular AO mechanism and other details some AOs may fall under switchblade category. Kershaw Speed Safe is not one of them, it is perfectly legal, details further down. As far as the state law goes, fixed blades must be carried openly, in the sheath, on the waist. I can't find where does the law ban either double edged blades or dirks and daggers. As the wording is, those are ok for open carry. No knives longer than 2.5"in the school, but folders are ok in the Universities and Colleges, unless, they were banned by local authorities. CCR(California Code Of Regulations) has a separate provision prohibitins any non employee and non student from carying any knife with a locking blade, dirks, daggers etc, and anything that can be used to inflict serious bodily injury. Needless to say it's way too vague, although if you had aforementioned dangerous object on you to do your lawful work, then you're ok. No knives longer than 4" in public buildings or buildings open to public meetings, e.g. courts, city halls, police stations, city council meetings, etc. And here is a more detailed look at CA PC 171b Ref - Definitions of terms in Penal Code Part 6/Title 3/Division 5

171.b - Tells you what you can and can not carry in public buildings and meetings. For the reference - Full Text Of Penal Code 171. 171.b starts with:
(a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part 1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section 11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison:
(1) Any firearm.
(2) Any deadly weapon described in Section 653k or 12020.
(3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded position by the use of one or two hands.
...
Thus no knives longer than 4" in state and public buildings. Exact definition of the state or local public meeting and open to public buildings can be found in 171.b(c). In short, those are state or local government owned or leased buildings such as courts, police stations, city halls, etc. Meetings mean wherever those officials get together to conduct regular or irregular work, e.g. city council meetings.



Do note that while California state law does not have a length limit on openly carried fixed-blades, both the municipality of Los Angeles, and the county of Los Angeles, have a length limit of 3 inches on ANY knife carried openly (blades must be under 3 inches). But there are exceptions to this length limit- if you are carrying for legitimate work-related reasons, or for legitimate recreational reasons (fishing, camping, etc).

I've read the California state knife laws, and the Los Angeles municipal and county knife laws several times and direct from their official sources. I've never seen any mention of a 4 inch blade limit on knives carried into "public buildings". Members of law enforcement don't always know their local knife laws, and sometimes they make mistakes. I'm not saying that I know more than Officer Warren, but if you can provide the penal code that indicates a 4 inch blade limit on knives carried in public buildings I would like to read it. The only statute in the California penal code that I could find that has a blade length limit of 4 inches specifically involves knives carried onto/into airport property (CA pc 171.5).

In my opinion, it's better to ask a lawyer about the law rather than a member of law enforcement.

Officer Warren did give good advice about carrying a copy of CA pc 20200 around with you. But if you are openly carrying ANY knife in Los Angeles with a blade 3 inches long or longer, and if you do not have a "legitimate" reason for carrying it, then CA pc 20200 may not be enough to save you from an arrest.
 
I carry My Ka-Bar Becker BK-7 knife in a Kydex sheath on my belt. In plain sight
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From the ordinances of Los Angeles, the city, which basically covers Los Angeles, the county,

13.62.010 Knives and daggers defined.

As used in this chapter, the terms “knives and daggers” shall include any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length; any spring-blade, switch-blade or snap-blade knife; any knife any blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device; any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool; any straight-edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle. (Ord. 11915 § 1, 1979.)

13.62.020 Carrying knives and daggers in plain view prohibited.

It is unlawful for any person to carry on his person, in plain view, any knife or dagger. (Ord. 11915 § 2, 1979.)
13.62.030 Exemptions to chapter applicability.

The foregoing restrictions shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of ordinary tools or equipment for use in a lawful occupation or for the purpose of lawful recreation, or where the carrying of a knife or dagger is a recognized religious practice. (Ord. 11915 § 3, 1979.)


Since California STATE law prohibits carrying any blade in a concealed manner and Los Angeles law prohibits the OPEN carry of any knife longer than 3 inches, the Los Angeles law effectively prohibits the carrying of a knife with a blade of greater than 3 inches.
 
I have to respectfully Disagree with you about the length limit. Officer Warren and I looked through the penal code book and researched all subsections. He told me that there is no length limit to fixed blade open carry. And NO I do not need to be on my way hunting or camping nor do I need to Have the blade on me for work purposes. Officer warren also got input from a desk SGT. and the Watch Commander. These are sworn civil servants with the knowledge and the resources to procure the information I called in to inquire about. State of California allows for concealed carry of the folding knives and there is no limit to the blade length. As long as the knife is not banned by PC 16100-17360 or in Part 6/Title 3/Division 5, it is legal. Division 6 of the same title bans knuckles, division 7 bans nunchakus and so on. 17235 does not make Assisted Openers(AO) illegal. However, depending on the particular AO mechanism and other details some AOs may fall under switchblade category. Kershaw Speed Safe is not one of them, it is perfectly legal, details further down. As far as the state law goes, fixed blades must be carried openly, in the sheath, on the waist. I can't find where does the law ban either double edged blades or dirks and daggers. As the wording is, those are ok for open carry. No knives longer than 2.5"in the school, but folders are ok in the Universities and Colleges, unless, they were banned by local authorities. CCR(California Code Of Regulations) has a separate provision prohibitins any non employee and non student from carying any knife with a locking blade, dirks, daggers etc, and anything that can be used to inflict serious bodily injury. Needless to say it's way too vague, although if you had aforementioned dangerous object on you to do your lawful work, then you're ok. No knives longer than 4" in public buildings or buildings open to public meetings, e.g. courts, city halls, police stations, city council meetings, etc. And here is a more detailed look at CA PC 171b Ref - Definitions of terms in Penal Code Part 6/Title 3/Division 5

171.b - Tells you what you can and can not carry in public buildings and meetings. For the reference - Full Text Of Penal Code 171. 171.b starts with:
(a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part 1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section 11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison:
(1) Any firearm.
(2) Any deadly weapon described in Section 653k or 12020.
(3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded position by the use of one or two hands.
...
Thus no knives longer than 4" in state and public buildings. Exact definition of the state or local public meeting and open to public buildings can be found in 171.b(c). In short, those are state or local government owned or leased buildings such as courts, police stations, city halls, etc. Meetings mean wherever those officials get together to conduct regular or irregular work, e.g. city council meetings.
It looks to me that 171.b applies to official state or local buildings, but not any and all "public buildings". For example- the length limit would apply to a town hall building, but not a store or restaurant open to the public. In post #21 you only said "public buildings", with no reference to them being official government buildings. That was the source of my dispute. EDIT- In a search of California's official legislative website http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml , 171.b is not recognized as "valid". I strongly suspect that 171.b was not included in a recent revision of California state law and is therefore no longer an active law in California. State laws are occasionally revised, and not every statute survives those revisions. I suspect that officer Warren was relying on an outdated copy of the penal code.

And as far as length limits on openly carried knives in Los Angeles, there is most certainly a 3" blade length limit.

To find the Los Angeles municipal codes, look here- http://www.amlegal.com/library/ca/losangeles.shtml For the knife laws of Los Angeles municipality, look up section 55.10

And for the county of Los Angeles, look here- http://www.lacounty.gov/wps/portal/lac/government/public/ For the knife laws of Los Angeles county, look up section 13.62.010 (zzyzzogeton provided that one above).

Both the municipality of LA, and LA county, have a 3 inch blade length limit on openly carried knives, folders and fixed-blades.
 
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It looks to me that 171.b applies to official state or local buildings, but not any and all "public buildings". For example- the length limit would apply to a town hall building, but not a store or restaurant open to the public. In post #21 you only said "public buildings", with no reference to them being official government buildings. That was the source of my dispute. EDIT- In a search of California's official legislative website http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml , 171.b is not recognized as "valid". I strongly suspect that 171.b was not included in a recent revision of California state law and is therefore no longer an active law in California. State laws are occasionally revised, and not every statute survives those revisions. I suspect that officer Warren was relying on an outdated copy of the penal code.

And as far as length limits on openly carried knives in Los Angeles, there is most certainly a 3" blade length limit.

To find the Los Angeles municipal codes, look here- http://www.amlegal.com/library/ca/losangeles.shtml For the knife laws of Los Angeles municipality, look up section 55.10

And for the county of Los Angeles, look here- http://www.lacounty.gov/wps/portal/lac/government/public/ For the knife laws of Los Angeles county, look up section 13.62.010 (zzyzzogeton provided that one above).

Both the municipality of LA, and LA county, have a 3 inch blade length limit on openly carried knives, folders and fixed-blades.

Source https://www.municode.com/webcontent/statelawpamphlets/ca.pdf

"In Fisher v. City of Berkeley, 209 Cal. Rep. 682, 729, 37 Cal. 3d 644, 693 P.2d 261, 308 (S. Ct. 1984), the following statement was made about municipal powers.
Every California city possesses the general power to 'make and enforce within its limits all local, police, sanitary, and other ordinances and regulations not in conflict with general laws.' (Cal. Const., art. XI, § 7.) In addition, charter cities have even greater authority: they have exclusive power to legislate over 'municipal affairs.' (Cal. Const., art. XI, § 5, subd. (a).)
In Isaac v. City of Los Angles, 77 Cal. Rep. 2d 752, 760, 66 Cal. App. 4th 586, 599---600 (2nd Dist. 1998), the court presented the following analysis of municipal powers and the effect of statutes upon them:
Every California city may enact and enforce within its limits local ordinances not in conflict with general laws. (Cal. Const., art. XI, § 7.) Chartered cities, such as Los Angeles, are granted exclusive power to legislate their municipal affairs. (Cal. Const., art. XI, § 5; Government Code § 34101.) Under home rule, the state Legislature's authority to intrude into matters of local concern is curtailed. The benefits of home rule are numerous, because cities are familiar with their own local problems and can often act more promptly to address problems than the state Legislature. Therefore, cities are only precluded from enacting laws on non-local matters if it is the intent of the Legislature to occupy the field to the exclusion of municipal regulation. (See Bishop v. City of San Jose (1969) 1 Cal. 3d 56, 61-62, 81 Cal. Rptr. 465, 460 P.2d 137.)
Whether a city ordinance is valid therefore requires a determination of whether (1) the local regulation or ordinance is a 'municipal affair,' upon which the municipality has the exclusive authority to regulate, or (2) whether the subject is a matter of statewide concern such that state legislation preempts any municipal attempt at lawmaking. Because the California Constitution does not define 'municipal affairs,' it has become a question to be decided on the facts of each case, as the concept of a municipal affair changes over time as local issues become issues of statewide concern. (Bishop, supra, at p. 62, 81 Cal. Rptr. 465, 460 P.2d 137; Century Plaza Hotel (1970) 7 Cal. App. 3d 616, 620, 87 Cal. Rptr. 166.) Although the state Legislature may have attempted to deal with a particular field, this does not automatically ordain preemption. The Legislature may also express its intent to permit local legislation in the field, or the statutory scheme may recognize local regulations. (City of Dublin v. County of Alameda (1993) 14 Cal. App. 4th 264, 276, 17 Cal. Rptr. 2d 845.)
Whether a particular matter is of 'statewide concern' is another way of stating that the matter is preempted and conflicting local legislation is prohibited. Fisher recognized a three-part test to infer a legislative intent to preempt conflicting municipal enactments only where (1) the subject matter has been so fully and completely covered by general law as to clearly indicate it has become exclusively a matter of state concern, (2) the subject matter has been partially covered by general law stated in such terms as to indicate clearly a matter of paramount state concern which will not tolerate further or additional local action, and (3) the subject matter has been partially covered by general law, and the subject is of such a nature that the adverse effect of a local ordinance outweighs the possible benefit of the law to the municipality. (Fisher, supra, at p. 708, 209 Cal. Rptr. 682, 693 P.2d 261.)"

Basically no city or county may pass code or ordnance counter to well established state law. The LA language would present clear difficulty to any DA for conviction of the city of county limits on blade length. But hey I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.
 
Basically no city or county may pass code or ordnance counter to well established state law. The LA language would present clear difficulty to any DA for conviction of the city of county limits on blade length. But hey I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.
Actually, cities and counties in California can most definitely enact and enforce local knife laws that are more restrictive than state laws. You quoted Issac v. City of Los Angeles which clearly says they can.

But if anyone living in Los Angeles believes that the city and county of LA do not have the power to enact and enforce their own knife laws, then they can go ahead and ignore LA knife laws. And if you are arrested you can find out for yourself how difficult it is for a Los Angeles DA to obtain a conviction. And after you are convicted you can try your luck arguing to the Appeals Court how local cities and counties have no right to pass laws that are more restrictive than state law. Good luck with that. Of course, I don't actually recommend such things. I recommend that people learn, know, and follow all local knife laws.
 
I'm sorry but I'm new to this group. I just wanted to state that carrying a double edged knife is in fact a felony and you will go to jail for no less than 30 days in california. I know this to be true because I went to jail for carrying a military issued k-bar wasnt committing any crime and have no pryor arrest record. Just a dick cop that stopped me because I was taking a late night walk and he had never seen me before. Had I known my rights I would have told him to pound sand and kept walking to my destination as he had no legal right to stop me
 
I'm sorry but I'm new to this group. I just wanted to state that carrying a double edged knife is in fact a felony and you will go to jail for no less than 30 days in california. I know this to be true because I went to jail for carrying a military issued k-bar wasnt committing any crime and have no pryor arrest record. Just a dick cop that stopped me because I was taking a late night walk and he had never seen me before. Had I known my rights I would have told him to pound sand and kept walking to my destination as he had no legal right to stop me
No, carrying a double edged knife is NOT a felony in California as long as it is carried openly. There is no statute in the California penal code that says it is illegal to openly carry double-edged knives. In fact, there is nothing even close.

Exactly what statute violation were you charged with? You would have been told this information when you were processed after arrest (booked), and again at your arraignment, and the exact statute number would have been provided to you in all court documents that are given to the defendant. Such information (the exact crime you were charged with) would also be required for the purpose of setting and posting bail.

What city were you arrested in? What jail were you taken to?

Were you convicted of a crime? Were you convicted of a felony? How much time did you spend in jail? Were you sentenced to probation?

Or did the cop just tell you it was a felony? If so, that doesn't make carrying a double-edged knife illegal, it makes that cop either incorrect about the law, or corrupt, or both.

Here is a link to California's official legislative website where all of it's current laws can be found. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml

To use that link, click "Text Search", then click the box next to "Penal Code" at the bottom of the center column, then enter any words you want to search the penal code for in the search boxes.

If you can provide the statute number of any law in the California penal code that says it's illegal to openly carry a double-edged knife I'd be very glad to read it. Of course I know that no such statute number will be provided, because no such law exists.

There is no such thing as ethereal law. Meaning, cops and prosecutors don't get to just make up laws out of thin air whenever it suits them. In order for a person to be prosecuted in a court of law, the prosecutor must be able to cite to the judge the specific statute that was violated by the defendant, and then prove to the judge that there is reasonable evidence that the defendant did in fact violate that statute. And that statute number has to be recorded in the initial arrest record, as well as every piece of documentation created throughout the case. In California, the courts record everything in documentation.

If you were in fact arrested and held in jail for openly carrying a double-edged knife, as long as you weren't violating some other knife law, like openly carrying a knife above the legal length limit in that jurisdiction, or carrying a fixed-blade on school property, or carrying a knife while "loitering" (another local statute in some jurisdictions), then you should contact a civil attorney and sue the county for violating your Constitutional rights.
 
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