Medford Praetorian T - The Big Fat Folding Axe

Teflon washers work really well. The only issue I had with my Hinderers was the washers do "squish" a bit and the blade would contact the frame when I would set it down a bit hard in the closed position and it would make that metal to metal sound. Drove me nuts so I switched to pb.
 
I don't like teflon because I had them rip in a cold steel recon 1 that had seen a lot of use, and they're noticeably less stiff than the bronze washers I always replace them with (I generally check for detectable side to side movement even when the knife is closed). It also seems like they can catch grit and embed it in the washer, judging by the ones I've seen when taking knives apart. They do have a lower coefficient of friction against steel than PB, but that matters less if you end up tightening the pivot more to compensate for reduced stiffness. YMMV, but PB seems best for me and my idiosyncrasies.

As for the stacks of washers, I have no idea why he opted for that design rather than just using a single washer and designing his spacers accordingly. You probably won't get lower friction from using more washers, but you'll potentially introduce variations in smoothness as the washers unpredictably slip past one another, and you open up the space between the scales and the blade to let in more debris.
 
marrenmiller said:
I don't like teflon because I had them rip in a cold steel recon 1 that had seen a lot of use
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Yeah that's one thing I haven't liked about how Cold Steel uses them, they are like whisper thin (.004" or something) and I agree in that thickness they don't hold up well. but .010" or more do great.

and they're noticeably less stiff than the bronze washers I always replace them with (I generally check for detectable side to side movement even when the knife is closed)
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I only check for horizontal play a/ tension off of the lock bar in the open position so don't do it in the closed position, but if all the other tolerances (flat and parallel) then they have been rock solid for me. but I understand it can vary.

It also seems like they can catch grit and embed it in the washer, judging by the ones I've seen when taking knives apart.
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I've had issues w/ pb... here's a pivot I lapped w/ pb washers on a new blade, notice the deeper scratches going around the pivot.

i-PGpMcN2-X2.jpg


Ok sorry for the de-rail... back on topic. Addicted_to_Knives Addicted_to_Knives I'm curious what you find out w/ Greg.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
Yeah that's one thing I haven't liked about how Cold Steel uses them, they are like whisper thin (.004" or something) and I agree in that thickness they don't hold up well. but .010" or more do great.
Addicted_to_Knives Addicted_to_Knives I'm curious what you find out w/ Greg.
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Totally, I'm sure they're great when they're done right (like Hinderer does them).

razor-edge-knives said:
I've had issues w/ pb... here's a pivot I lapped w/ pb washers on a new blade, notice the deeper scratches going around the pivot.

i-PGpMcN2-X2.jpg


Addicted_to_Knives Addicted_to_Knives I'm curious what you find out w/ Greg.
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Whoa. The washers did that after you lapped the pivot? Or was it scratched before that?
 
Barman1 said:
Teflon washers work really well. The only issue I had with my Hinderers was the washers do "squish" a bit and the blade would contact the frame when I would set it down a bit hard in the closed position and it would make that metal to metal sound. Drove me nuts so I switched to pb.
Click to expand...
I had that happen with one of my Recon 1s anytime I would tap the sides of the scales. I ended up putting a tiny strip of foam in the end of the handle to keep the blade steady and deaden the sound. Switching to bronze washers eventually fixed the issue, though.
 
stabman said:
With my Marauder, it's 2 washers per side:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/screw-yer-warranty.1542631/

The two washers with the right grease are pretty smooth...not quite as smooth with the grease I used upon reassembly.
Be interesting to get single washers of the right thickness and the same grease and see if there's any difference over time.
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Very interesting, so this is the Greg Medford thing to double and triple on washers each side... Wonder what's the whole point of doing that. Hope I will hear from MKT about this.
 
It could have to with the blade thickness and the angle of the lock bar engaging the lock face. The extra spacing could be how he achieves better or proper lock up.

His recent YouTube videos go into depth about his knife making process and while he is a stubborn sob stuck in his ways he is certainly an intelligent guy. Perhaps there is another way but it's just a thought.

Although I've seen him at shows and handled his knives I've Never owned one. ( can't afford them ;)) Just speculating.

He always answers the phone so someone should just ask him.



On a final note, it would annoy the hell out of me having more than one washer per side!!
 
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The final answer: Greg does it for tolerances and to achieve perfect centering. Some Medfords have 3 & 3 , some 4 & 2, some 4 & 3, some 2 & 2... each is hand tuned and that's when the decision is made on the number of washers.

Still... feels an easy way to fix an issue. Why not machine the backspacer and other parts and redesign knife a bit vs. Just drop more washers?
 
Addicted_to_Knives said:
The final answer: Greg does it for tolerances and to achieve perfect centering. Some Medfords have 3 & 3 , some 4 & 2, some 4 & 3, some 2 & 2... each is hand tuned and that's when the decision is made on the number of washers.

Still... feels an easy way to fix an issue. Why not machine the backspacer and other parts and redesign knife a bit vs. Just drop more washers?
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Sounds like a cheap fix to inadequate machining tolerances and poor designs. I’ve never owned a CRK folding knife with multiple washers and they have all have had absolutely perfect centering and tolerances for a lesser price than a Medford.
 
Grandmaster said:
Wow, some have 4 and 2, that is just bad tolerances on knife $500+, that's not acceptable.
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I nearly got killed for exactly same comment by Medford fans :) But I agree with you and other comments above, on $500+ knives that's just a cheap way or easy fix.

The main counter-argument by the Medford fans was: It is completely OK and fine to do, since they (all Medford knives) are all hand tuned and the decision on how many washers will be placed on each side is made during the hand tuning process and Greg knows the best since he is the best, period. I was also told by them to put back the knife exactly in the way it was, meaning all washers on top of each other exactly same way they were (even though all six of them were exactly the same - material, thickness, size, etc) before disassembly, because if I missed even one placement over the other one (if 1st went on top of the 3rd and 2nd on top of the 1st for example), then I would destroy the knife and the knife would never work again and this is exactly why Greg Medford prohibits taking the knife apart and voids the warranty. Well, I decided to test this and took the knife apart few more times, replaced the washers and swapped the sides, replaced individual ones, back and forth... And you know what happened? NOTHING!! the knife was working nicely and smoothly as it was from the day it arrived.

In a sense I do agree, Greg is great and yes my Medford knives all work fine, open smooth, action is great = no complain. With $750 knife I think I should expect a bit more higher quality machining and if the machining was not perfect enough, try one more time and make it perfect so the knife centers perfectly with single washers on each side and tolerances are fine, no need to put billion washers.

Overall, when I pay over $400 for a knife my quality demands get stricter and I will be very vocal about any flaws or cheap material I will criticize the knives and the knifemaker. Period. If this was under $50 Chinese knife with 7CR or 8CR blade, you'd never hear a word from me, I would not waste mine or anyone's time. But once you start taking $700-$800 on each knife, be ready to face tough questions if they exist in regards to quality or components or design or materials, etc...
 
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Other knives use multiple washers too.
Ain't gonna bother listing them all, but other companies do it too.
Seems to just be manufacturer's preference about how to do it.
Not a big deal either way really.
 
Addicted_to_Knives said:
I nearly got killed for exactly same comment by Medford fans :) But I agree with you and other comments above, on $500+ knives that's just a cheap way or easy fix.

The main counter-argument by the Medford fans was: It is completely OK and fine to do, since they (all Medford knives) are all hand tuned and the decision on how many washers will be placed on each side is made during the hand tuning process and Greg knows the best since he is the best, period. I was also told by them to put back the knife exactly in the way it was, meaning all washers on top of each other exactly same way they were (even though all six of them were exactly the same - material, thickness, size, etc) before disassembly, because if I missed even one placement over the other one (if 1st went on top of the 3rd and 2nd on top of the 1st for example), then I would destroy the knife and the knife would never work again and this is exactly why Greg Medford prohibits taking the knife apart and voids the warranty. Well, I decided to test this and took the knife apart few more times, replaced the washers and swapped the sides, replaced individual ones, back and forth... And you know what happened? NOTHING!! the knife was working nicely and smoothly as it was from the day it arrived.

In a sense I do agree, Greg is great and yes my Medford knives all work fine, open smooth, action is great = no complain. With $750 knife I think I should expect a bit more higher quality machining and if the machining was not perfect enough, try one more time and make it perfect so the knife centers perfectly with single washers on each side and tolerances are fine, no need to put billion washers.

Overall, when I pay over $400 for a knife my quality demands get stricter and I will be very vocal about any flaws or cheap material I will criticize the knives and the knifemaker. Period. If this was under $50 Chinese knife with 7CR or 8CR blade, you'd never hear a word from me, I would not waste mine or anyone's time. But once you start taking $700-$800 on each knife, be ready to face tough questions if they exist in regards to quality or components or design or materials, etc...
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You're right, as long as the thickness is there to match the overall parallelism it doesn't matter what order they go in.
 
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