Meh?

hhmoore said:
I did consider the possibilities prior to posting; but my post was not intended to be disrespectful to Chris Reeve...or any owners, users, or fans of his knives. It would have been difficult to ask the question I wanted answered without setting it up at least a little.
I would like to thank the people that took a few minutes to respond - nobody's reply came as a surprise to me; and I feel somewhat better about that. I have every intention of giving the knife a fair chance - probably more of a chance than I've given some other knives that I wanted to like, but didn't. (Go ahead, lol, ask me how I feel about the PM2).
Hopefully, my future postings in this forum will reflect an awakening...if the knife doesn't win me over, I won't feel compelled to comment on that (though my experiences along the way might be worth a post or two).
Click to expand...
No harm...no foul. My reason for asking about knives you really like involves my own collection. I'm discovering that there is more to "liking a knife" than its precision, fit-&-finish and close tolerances. There's a very real, but difficult-to-identify-from-specs issue involving feel, balance and heft.

Appreciating precision engineering is not the same as appreciating the way a knife feels in your hand.
 
I have lusted over CRKs for a few years and just finally bought my first (large Starbenza) not so long ago. When I opened the box the angels did sing, the heavens opened up and a light shown down from above. I didn't even take it out at first. I ran around the house with it still in it's Styrofoam cradle showing my kids and my wife, "Isn't it beautiful??" They didn't get it and I didn't care. This was mine, it was stunning and I loved it.

Then within the first few weeks of owning it I sold almost every other knife I owned so I could get two more CRKs (Umnumzaan, small micarta Insigno).

So in the end I would say that my experience was slightly different than the OP. :)

-Steve
 
Officer's Match said:
Steve, I would say it was different in the beginning, it may yet be similar in the end.
Click to expand...

Maybe true... I may sound delusional but I know how my obsessions work. There is a chance I'll sell them all and be obsessed with something else down the line. So maybe after the newness wears off I will be in the same boat. Time will tell.

-Steve
 
stevelenti said:
Maybe true... I may sound delusional but I know how my obsessions work. There is a chance I'll sell them all and be obsessed with something else down the line. So maybe after the newness wears off I will be in the same boat. Time will tell.

-Steve
Click to expand...

No, I meant the OP in the end may agree, not you.
 
hhmoore said:
I did a little reading here, and noticed that a few people commented that many people don't appreciate CRK knives until they better understand knives and learn about quality. To be honest, I was put off by that attitude (it sort of comes off as elitist BS, IMO)
Click to expand...

No, there is some truth in that it's helpful to have owned many other knives to help you figure out if what a CRK offers for the money is worth it to you. I think some people just try to take offense to that statement for some reason. I sure as hell know after owning CRKs whether I think Hinderers and Striders are worth the same amount.

I've been fortunate enough to have owned many different folders from various top companies and have gotten to really experience and take notice of what I personally find value in with a folding knife. I'm pondering selling possibly 1 or 2 CRKs and a Hinderer because they're essentially becoming expensive paperweights. Precision engineering and overbuiltness although nice don't necessarily equal value to me. Especially when the $400 knife does its job (to cut) worse than a $60 knife (sharpened pry bar reference). You shouldn't have to force yourself to like something just because you paid $400 for it. You should know relatively soon if it hits all the right notes for you. If it doesn't then there's nothing wrong with that.

For example, I had to get an Umnumzaan because I briefly had one I had to return due to lack of disclosure, and in the following 9 months, found myself staring at pictures of them till I obsessed, sold something to fund it, and bought a new one. It's basically sat in the safe since with maybe a bi-monthly fondle. It's cool and it's nice no doubt, but I'm having trouble finding the value in it for me. It's heavy, less easy to open and close than the Sebenza, not as comfortable in hand as a large 21, and the blade shape discourages me from carrying it. So why do I still have it? I'm not a collector and prefer a minimalist approach. Some are ok with having thousands of dollars in knives sitting around being unused, and although I can currently afford to keep it and all the others, I have a certain amount of guilt not carrying and using it.

I used to have a limit of $150 before I got into high end folders. I couldn't fathom paying more than that for a knife. I soared into the realm of $400 shortly thereafter and figured that's where I'd stay. But naturally our tastes evolve and change through experience. I really like my Sebenzas and carry them a lot, but the knives I really have fun with and enjoy using are my Spydercos. Guilt free, worry free knives that feel great, are easy to manipulate, and do their job better than most any other. So lately, through experience, I find myself trending full circle back towards that $150 and below mark knowing there's a ton of value there (to me). This is not a knock at CRK as they're in a league of their own, but what we personally like and find value in are our own decisions, and we shouldn't have to justify it to anyone else.
 
uofaengr said:
No, there is some truth in that it's helpful to have owned many other knives to help you figure out if what a CRK offers for the money is worth it to you. I think some people just try to take offense to that statement for some reason. I sure as hell know after owning CRKs whether I think Hinderers and Striders are worth the same amount.

I've been fortunate enough to have owned many different folders from various top companies and have gotten to really experience and take notice of what I personally find value in with a folding knife. I'm pondering selling possibly 1 or 2 CRKs and a Hinderer because they're essentially becoming expensive paperweights. Precision engineering and overbuiltness although nice don't necessarily equal value to me. Especially when the $400 knife does its job (to cut) worse than a $60 knife (sharpened pry bar reference). You shouldn't have to force yourself to like something just because you paid $400 for it. You should know relatively soon if it hits all the right notes for you. If it doesn't then there's nothing wrong with that.

For example, I had to get an Umnumzaan because I briefly had one I had to return due to lack of disclosure, and in the following 9 months, found myself staring at pictures of them till I obsessed, sold something to fund it, and bought a new one. It's basically sat in the safe since with maybe a bi-monthly fondle. It's cool and it's nice no doubt, but I'm having trouble finding the value in it for me. It's heavy, less easy to open and close than the Sebenza, not as comfortable in hand as a large 21, and the blade shape discourages me from carrying it. So why do I still have it? I'm not a collector and prefer a minimalist approach. Some are ok with having thousands of dollars in knives sitting around being unused, and although I can currently afford to keep it and all the others, I have a certain amount of guilt not carrying and using it.

I used to have a limit of $150 before I got into high end folders. I couldn't fathom paying more than that for a knife. I soared into the realm of $400 shortly thereafter and figured that's where I'd stay. But naturally our tastes evolve and change through experience. I really like my Sebenzas and carry them a lot, but the knives I really have fun with and enjoy using are my Spydercos. Guilt free, worry free knives that feel great, are easy to manipulate, and do their job better than most any other. So lately, through experience, I find myself trending full circle back towards that $150 and below mark knowing there's a ton of value there (to me). This is not a knock at CRK as they're in a league of their own, but what we personally like and find value in are our own decisions, and we shouldn't have to justify it to anyone else.
Click to expand...
Any willingness to mention some of the $150 knives? Like the way you explained the dilemma...ultimate quality vs. close enough may be good enough.
 
6sigma said:
No harm...no foul. My reason for asking about knives you really like involves my own collection. I'm discovering that there is more to "liking a knife" than its precision, fit-&-finish and close tolerances. There's a very real, but difficult-to-identify-from-specs issue involving feel, balance and heft.

Appreciating precision engineering is not the same as appreciating the way a knife feels in your hand.
Click to expand...

I meant to quote this earlier and comment because this is a good post. This is spot on with my long-winded post above and essentially what I'm trying to say.

6sigma said:
Any willingness to mention some of the $150 knives? Like the way you explained the dilemma...ultimate quality vs. close enough may be good enough.
Click to expand...

It's good enough for some. If I had to sell everything and only keep one, it'd probably be my small plain Sebenza 21. However, I could get by just fine from now on with a Spyderco Military and Delica and that's it and would actually be a tough choice between keeping those two or the 21. Thin, well made, easily usable and replaceable, don't think twice when using them, do what they're supposed to do and feel good doing it. G10 and FRN are probably my favorite scales when it comes to actually using a knife plus the light weight they provide.

The Gayle Bradley is a ridiculous value for what you get, just the ergos and CF are not my favorite. I really really like the Doug Ritter mini grip even though mine is off center with an off center primary grind. It's went through my head before I could carry that thing and nothing else for a decade and be OK with it ($35 blade replacements folks). F&F isn't great, but good steel and I love that blade and stonewash along with the ergos and easy carryabililty. You could throw the PM2 in here too though I prefer the Military and Delica.

I won't keep rambling, but none of these knives were made to precision tolerances; however, my Military and the GBs I had were all rock solid in lockup and perfectly centered and that's all I can ask. The 4 knives I mentioned on average add up to the cost of a large micarta 21. None of them are anywhere near as nice, but damn are they (minus the GB) fun to use, ergonomic, and easy to carry. Also it'd suck if I lost any one of them, but I wouldn't think twice about pulling out the credit card and ordering a new one that day and wouldn't have to sell something else to afford it.
 
uofaengr said:
I meant to quote this earlier and comment because this is a good post. This is spot on with my long-winded post above and essentially what I'm trying to say.



It's good enough for some. If I had to sell everything and only keep one, it'd probably be my small plain Sebenza 21. However, I could get by just fine from now on with a Spyderco Military and Delica and that's it and would actually be a tough choice between keeping those two or the 21. Thin, well made, easily usable and replaceable, don't think twice when using them, do what they're supposed to do and feel good doing it. G10 and FRN are probably my favorite scales when it comes to actually using a knife plus the light weight they provide.

The Gayle Bradley is a ridiculous value for what you get, just the ergos and CF are not my favorite. I really really like the Doug Ritter mini grip even though mine is off center with an off center primary grind. It's went through my head before I could carry that thing and nothing else for a decade and be OK with it ($35 blade replacements folks). F&F isn't great, but good steel and I love that blade and stonewash along with the ergos and easy carryabililty. You could throw the PM2 in here too though I prefer the Military and Delica.

I won't keep rambling, but none of these knives were made to precision tolerances; however, my Military and the GBs I had were all rock solid in lockup and perfectly centered and that's all I can ask. The 4 knives I mentioned on average add up to the cost of a large micarta 21. None of them are anywhere near as nice, but damn are they (minus the GB) fun to use, ergonomic, and easy to carry. Also it'd suck if I lost any one of them, but I wouldn't think twice about pulling out the credit card and ordering a new one that day and wouldn't have to sell something else to afford it.
Click to expand...
Very useful insights. Thanks for the reply. I don't have my first Sebenza, yet. Beginning in March I started ordering knives. The ones you mentioned (classics) are on my list.

The value questions I keep pursuing are:

If I need to cut 20 different things one day, is one of these knives "better" than the others? If I need to cut 20 of the same thing each day for the next 3 years, is one of these knives "better" in some way? Beyond those questions most of the differences are in feel, fit, finish and prestige...but, I could well be wrong. It's what makes putting together a collection of 12 to 18 knives interesting.

Again, many thanks.
 
6sigma said:
Very useful insights. Thanks for the reply. I don't have my first Sebenza, yet. Beginning in March I started ordering knives. The ones you mentioned (classics) are on my list.

The value questions I keep pursuing are:

If I need to cut 20 different things one day, is one of these knives "better" than the others? If I need to cut 20 of the same thing each day for the next 3 years, is one of these knives "better" in some way? Beyond those questions most of the differences are in feel, fit, finish and prestige...but, I could well be wrong. It's what makes putting together a collection of 12 to 18 knives interesting.

Again, many thanks.
Click to expand...
No problem. I have been at this for a few years, many others around here much longer than that. Just be patient. It was very hard for me to be patient because I could never get satisfied until I got the next knife. I thought a Sebenza would end it, but it didn't because then I had to try out all the different CRKs. I went through about 15 different Spyderco models before I finally figured out I really only like 3 basic models (Military, Delica, PM2) and they hit all the right buttons for me. Went through all the CRKs and variations of past and present Sebenzas, Hinderers, and Striders to figure out what does "it" for me. Only the 21 and 3" XM-18 really do it for me out of all the models within those 3 brands. This hobby is definitely a journey and not a sprint. Now I'm at the point where I'm deciding if $400 supremely engineered folders are worth it to me or not especially if they don't hit every single button for me.
 
Well, this is sure a timely thread for me. I purchased my 1st CRK here on the Exchange yesterday--a small Sebenza cocobolo inlay--and just finished reading an older "small v large Seb" thread. (Oddly enough, SteveV posted on the same thread I bought the knife on.) While I carried "lesser" knives for a long time, my current obsession started last year with the purchase of a Tenacious and has atomically mushroomed into a collection that includes a dozen each Spyders & BMs and the odd ZT, SOG, RAT, others. I've added custom scales to and modded some of the BMs to pillars and with clips, etc. Funny that the Spyders are all still factory.

Anyway, I've been looking at Sebenzas, wondering what all the fuss is about, and hesitating on the price-point. A couple of my blades new were close to my Seb purchase price (though I bought 'em for less on the secondary market) and some of my mods have taken me close to that level. I haven't handled a CRK and have only one true frame-lock--a Sage 2. I haven't developed any interest in Hinderers, Striders, different-sided, or other frame-locks, but kept coming back to the CRKs. I went with the small Seb second-hand out of price consideration and because I want it for a user. I wonder if it will seem too small for my old, chunky, arthritic carpenter's hands. Aside from the aesthetic appeal, that's another reason I went with the inlays.

I like my bigger knives a lot--710s, Millie, Manix XL, Endura--but the blades are sometimes a bit too too for general use. I'm liking my 943 & 940 CFs, PM2, Manix2, and Griptillians (both re-scaled) for everyday. The whole EDC thing is kinda different for me anyway. Is it everyday or every day? Sorta neither for me, 'cause any day that's a workday, I'm carrying a knife I'm not afraid to beat-up/close-to-abuse on the job--Tenacious, RAT, Pardue Grip, or ZT 0350 (all but one combo-edged)--and the others are saved for weekends, time in Vermont, or those blessed off-days.

So, I'm rambling here and will just have to wait 'til mid-week for the moment of truth. When it comes to that meh vs love-at-first sight moment, it won't determine whether I grow to really like the knife or not. Lots of my favorites--and I pretty much like 'em all--were kinda meh on opening. Still, I'm curious to see if a gentle light emanates from the box and I can hear the angels softly sing....
 
One advantage to our hobby, or obsession, is that there are a ton of choices out there that will cut what you need to cut, in such a way as your pleased with it.

No harm in finding that the Seb may not be "the special". Watched the Lego Movie again with the grandkid for the 100th time this morning. Lol.

I was kind of the same way with a Ti-Lock. Read through some threads. Looked at Kid Congo's fantastic pics, and decided I needed one. Bought one. And it just felt odd and I didn't see myself using it. But, it left an impression on me that kept me thinking about it once it was gone. Kid was still posting pics, other new users chiming in, so I bought another. Now I'm liking it. I don't think I gave the first one a fair shake. But that's me.

Give your Seb a try for a month or so, and move it along if you want. Used Sebs sell quite well on the forum. :)
 
kidcongo said:
I would argue it is through use that the real "love" develops for the Sebenza. It's a deceptively simple design, but highly refined. I too felt "whatever?" when I got my first CRK, now I'm a fan.

I issue this challenge to you: Forget what you paid for it, throw it in your pocket like it was a Spyderco Delica, use it like its a Buck 110, work it like a tool for a couple weeks and report back. If it's not a love story by then, you've spent $75 (my guess at the loss in value having used it to sell it) to come up with an answer to one of the big questions in the knife "hobbiest" world: what's the big deal with the Sebenza?
Click to expand...

Very well said!
 
I noticed that this thread was still going, so I figured I'd post an update.
Since my last post in this thread, I have created another...but I'm still sort of struggling.
I've disassembled/lubed/reassembled, and liked the knife a little better afterwards. I've carried it, gotten used to the feel of it in my pocket, and somewhat acclimated to the feel of it in hand. There's a lot I like about it; but I'm still undecided.
In my other thread, I mentioned going another route - I delayed, thought about it, delayed some more; then, when I was ready to make the purchase, the knife was no longer available. (There will be another, and it won't take all that long)

This morning, I stumbled across a (large) micarta for a good price, and decided to heed the recommendations I'd been given. It may be frowned upon, but I'll probably swap blades if I find the micarta inlays to make the difference for me. (I don't discount the idea because I've had my opinion about other knives changed due to a handle swap.)
 
hhmoore said:
I noticed that this thread was still going, so I figured I'd post an update.
Since my last post in this thread, I have created another...but I'm still sort of struggling.
I've disassembled/lubed/reassembled, and liked the knife a little better afterwards. I've carried it, gotten used to the feel of it in my pocket, and somewhat acclimated to the feel of it in hand. There's a lot I like about it; but I'm still undecided.
In my other thread, I mentioned going another route - I delayed, thought about it, delayed some more; then, when I was ready to make the purchase, the knife was no longer available. (There will be another, and it won't take all that long)

This morning, I stumbled across a (large) micarta for a good price, and decided to heed the recommendations I'd been given. It may be frowned upon, but I'll probably swap blades if I find the micarta inlays to make the difference for me. (I don't discount the idea because I've had my opinion about other knives changed due to a handle swap.)
Click to expand...

I bought a Zaan that had a previous blade swap done. I had to get a new blade for it. The blades are custom fitted to each knife. They actually remove metal from the tang to get the lockup top be correct. The washers and pivot bushing are also custom fit. This is why they need the knife to get a new blade.

If you must do the swap, I'd recommend keeping the washers and busing with the blade. Do it as a set.
 
Thanks for the info.
Another seemingly good idea thwarted by reality, lol.
I guess that I'll set that notion aside, and - if I like the handles - get rid of both in favor of a micarta insingo.
 
So, here I am, 3 months later (based on my last post, not the start of the thread).

I ended up following through with the course planned in my last post - the plain jane large insingo and the large micarta are gone, having been replaced by a large micarta insingo.
I like it better than either of the other two; and I carry it on a semi-regular basis. I like it enough that I have no inclination to send it away...but I'm still not wholly enamored with it, and for a very simple reason. The problem I have with the large 21 - even with the micarta inlays - is the handle shape. I stated earlier in this thread that my original large 21 didn't feel particularly good in my hand. It isn't uncomfortable, by any stretch - or it wouldn't be staying - it's just missing something. Over the years that I have been carrying knives, it seems that many manufacturers strive for improved ergonomics (I really dislike using that term when talking about knives); so there are a lot of knives with handles that are shaped and contoured for maximum comfort & improved fit...the handles of the 21 seem - well - uninspired, to me. The large micarta has a lot of things going for it, and I'm a big fan of the insingo blade; but the handle misses the mark (again, speaking for myself, only). That said, let me acknowledge that the simple design works - I get that. It works; which is why I still carry and use the knife...it's just that, for me, hand feel can make or break how I feel about a knife. If I like the way a knife fits/feels in my hand, I like the knife.

I mentioned, previously, a model I had planned on purchasing; but by the time I'd convinced myself, it was gone. That was the Starbenza25 - it has since come back into stock, and gone on sale...and I couldn't bring myself to buy it because I'd already acknowledged entering sort of a stasis. I'm in a good place - not actually WANTing to buy any new knives. There is no need or desire to satisfy. I still look at it, though, from time to time; wondering if the slightly different shape, combined with the pattern, would be what it takes to bring me to a greater level of appreciation. I think it might be...but I'm content to postpone that exploration until I start getting "the itch" again.
There's also the matter of a snakewood Mnandi. I have every intention of purchasing one - I don't have a frequent need for a "gentleman's knife"; but I'd like the option of something more upscale than my GECs when I do have to go formal. I may not wait for the itch to come, for that, though; I've already accepted that it's happening...I just haven't gotten around to it, yet.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everybody that has participated - taking the time to share experiences, and make recommendations - you've been very helpful. I was never expecting to become a full blown CRK "fanboy"...my goal was to get past old prejudices, and give the knife a fair chance. I hoped that I would come to not only appreciate the quality - which I did from the start - but to actually like it. I'm happy to say that I like it more than I thought I would.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top