Melamine 120

Question about the white handle material shown on the beautiful knives above. Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to satisfy my curiosity about the material. Someone called it melamine, others called it phenolic. The early 501 knives have scales made from phenolic resin with possibly canvas fiber. You can see it easily with a magnifying glass. We used to machine phenolic impregnated canvas back in the day, and I still have some of the left over material. Supposedly high grade cue balls are made from phenolic impregnated resin.

What is the correct name for the white handle material, and is it impregnated with canvas or some other material?

Have a blessed day,

Leon
 
Here's a completed auction that recently sold for $375.

From an Estate sale that the owner had a very large BUCK collection. First knife is a BUCK early 1960's "121" fish filet knife with a scaler on the spine. It also has a DOUBLE BUCK inverted stamp on the right side of the blade. It is a First Generation 121, 1964/65. Total length of this knife is 10". The second knife has NO BUCK stamp any where. After some research, I found out that in the 1940's and 50's, there where BUCK knives that never got a stamp. I got this info from the owner of Triple-R-Knives. The handle has the SMALL butt cap and small guard as well. The handle is white, possibly a material called Melamine. There is also a barrel nut in the butt cap. Total length of this knife is 10 1/2". Pages 380 to 382 in the Levine's Guide To Knives, 4th Edition, also has info about these knives. The sheath for the Fish Filet 121 with scaler is the original 3 rivetted/stitched sheath. The white handle knife has no sheath. Both knife blades have some scratches. I am selling both knives as a set since I am not 100% sure that the white handle (white acrylic/Melamine) knife is in fact a very early BUCK 121. If anybody has anymore info about the white handle knife please contact me as well as any question.

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GPyro - I agree with you 100% . I feel that I am generally pretty fair when it comes to both buying and selling. I have sold some way too cheap only to find out the buyer knew something I didn't and resold it for a large profit. I don't mind it al all.
Good for the buyer. He knew or found out something I did not know. I have overpaid for many knives when It is something I really wanted for my collection. If asked I always give a value of what I feel they could get
for it on the bay. Sometimes I am right on and sometimes I am off but usually pretty accurate. I have underpaid for knives when I wasn't sure of what it was or really didn't want the knife except for when the price was
right. I usually don't like trading but have when someone offers me either something I want more or they stack it way in my favor by offering me for example $1500 worth of knives for my $800 knife that I really didn't want
to get rid of. I figured if they want it that bad I would do the trade even though it was one sided. I did this a couple times than later was accused of taking advantage of them so I no longer do any trading. These trades were
people reaching out to me trying to convince me to do a trade. I didn't reach out to them. Every time I would say no to the trade the persons would throw in something else until I agreed to the trade.
Bottom line I never purposely take advantage of someone and am always ready to pay up for something I really want to add to my collection. I also might add that I also did a few trades with individuals that are members of this forum and I feel they went very well for both parties.

Within the last few months there have been a couple widows of Buck Knife collectors that posted on another site that their husbands passed away and they wanted either information or they wanted to start selling some of their knives. One lady had prices on some that were 20% of their value. I messaged the person to help her with prices and was told to stay out of it by others. Another recently I messaged her stating I think I knew her husband only to be told I was being a vulture and for me to stop. This was not by the ladies but by other posters. I never tried to buy a single knife from either one while many other people were. I have decided not to reach out anymore in these type of circumstances.
 
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Ole Joe Clark said:
Question about the white handle material shown on the beautiful knives above. Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to satisfy my curiosity about the material. Someone called it melamine, others called it phenolic. The early 501 knives have scales made from phenolic resin with possibly canvas fiber. You can see it easily with a magnifying glass. We used to machine phenolic impregnated canvas back in the day, and I still have some of the left over material. Supposedly high grade cue balls are made from phenolic impregnated resin.

What is the correct name for the white handle material, and is it impregnated with canvas or some other material?...Leon
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Well, you asked a mouthfull. I'll give answering this a try... bear with me.
The original 1961 to 1963 white handled knives shown at the beginning of this thread are made of Melamine, an organic resin. They are solid, not composite.
Where you became confused was when the discussion turned to wishing that Buck would recreate these knives. The current material Buck uses for the Black handled 100 series knives is a Phenolic, a synthetic resin. Some of us dream that Buck could recreate the "Melamine" white style using it's current Phenolic material. The white handled Vanguard I show in post #12 is a solid white phenolic handle. I am sure there are a zillion different types of resin chemistries out there. Besides being used as a solid material, resins can be mixed with "fabric" materials giving us composites...micarta, G10, fiberglass, carbon fiber etc etc etc.. The micarta used on your early 501 is probably a resin impregnated linen. About the cue balls, yes I believe the are currently made from a phenolic resin, they are solid "plastic", not an impregnated composite type material. Clear as mud? /Roger
 
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The white handled 124's were given the number 124BC for bone corian. So Buck has also used corian. The white handled 301's made and sold for the bcci were white micarta. All these look somewhat alike so any of these materials would be great for Buck to use on a special run of 100 series knives.
 
TAH said:
Here's a completed auction that recently sold for $375.
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That pair was listed forever. Personally I did not believe the white knife was a Buck although it did have some similarities and it was too much to pay for the 121. Obviously I was not alone in that thought or the pair would have been snatched up immediately instead of languishing for so long unsold.
 
I thought exactly the same thing on those 2 knives. I wasn't willing to take a chance on it and I dont think there is any way to ever be 100% sure or not. And th hat would have been too much to pay for the 121 alone.
 
gedlicks said:
The white handled 124's were given the number 124BC for bone corian. So Buck has also used corian. The white handled 301's made and sold for the bcci were white micarta. All these look somewhat alike so any of these materials would be great for Buck to use on a special run of 100 series knives.
Click to expand...

How could I tell if my white handled vanguard is corian vs white phenolic. I've bounced back and forth on that.
 
That's probably a question you will have to keep asking yourself. You probably have to see at what temperature the handle material melts at. Than what color the flame is when you burn it and how much pressure it can handle in a press before it cracks. Than you have to do the same with 2 other knives. One with corian and one with white phenolic. Than compare the results.
Please post on the forum what you find out.
 
GPyro said:
I was worried. :eek:
I had you pegged for a better man than that.
The most valuable thing we have is our reputations.

.....I thought you were just screwing around.
But I had to call it out for the less scrupulous amongst us.

Those really are awesome knives.
I wasn't even aware of them until recently.
Thanks for sharing those.

One of the best things about this forum is the integrity of the participants. :thumbsup:
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I remember quite a few years ago, there was an original Scagle in superb condition listed on Ebay wirh no reserve. Original sheath and all. Appeared completely unused.

Another Ebay user messaged the seller and advised him not to take any "buy it now for $XXXX" offers he was sure to receive, but to allow the sale to proceed to the end of the auction. He told the seller he would likely be amazed at the price it brought.

When the auction ended, if I remember correctly, the piece went for $32,000, and sold to the gentleman who gave the good advice. The seller received many, many offers to take it now at a much lower price.
 
I just recently heard of a Bowie valued at way over $50.000.00 that was listed on Ebay..It was reported as a fake so Ebay had the listing pulled. The buyer who had the listing pulled then tried to buy it cheep but fortunately 4 other buyers seen it and the real auction started. It eventually sold for $4,000.00 plus but the buyer literally almost fainted when he opened the box. He told me personally would NOT sell it as it was truly a work of art including the shieth. The highest craftsmanship in a pre 1850's knife he has ever seen.
 
I wanted to verify that billiard balls were indeed phenolic as I stated above and came across this. Apparently not all are phenolic but the best ones are.

Phenolic resin balls
Phenolic resin balls will last up to five times longer than polyester billiard balls because of their chemical make up which allows the balls to hold their high gloss polish over time therefore creating less friction between the billiard cloth and the billiard balls.
Phenolic resin when heat cured properly offers a stabilized material with homogeneous density dispersion throughout each billiard ball. This means the center of the ball is the true center of the ball, guaranteeing a balanced and accurate roll. The heat curing process also produces a vitrified high density surface which withstands over 50 times more impacts than polyester balls and resists scratching.
 
I was under the assumption that the first billiard balls were ivory. Also relic keyboard instruments. I have walked past several in old falling in homestead houses, exposed to the weather, that I wish I could go back and check out. I was taught one of the LE tests for ivory is to heat a needle red hot and in a place that can't be seen plunge it in to see if the hole is clean edged or has a curl of plastic/resin around the rim. I wouldn't think this test to be used on artworks just a field test for raw material.
 
Just a little more, Fred Flintstone would have used a rock but I think the earliest were wood. Then ivory...continue reading....

Because of its explosive nature, not all applications of nitrocellulose were successful. In 1869, with elephants having been poached to near extinction, the billiards industry offered a US$10,000 prize to whomever came up with the best replacement for ivory billiard balls. John Wesley Hyatt created the winning replacement, which he created with a new material he invented, called camphored nitrocellulose—the first thermoplastic, better known as Cellulod. The invention enjoyed a brief popularity, but the Hyatt balls were extremely flammable, and sometimes portions of the outer shell would explode upon impact. An owner of a billiard saloon in Colorado wrote to Hyatt about the explosive tendencies, saying that he did not mind very much personally but for the fact that every man in his saloon immediately pulled a gun at the sound
 
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Ivory has a very distinctive smell to it when sanded. Anyone who has ever worked with ivory will be familiar with the smell. Lightly sand by hand an edge of the ivory with 2000 or 3000 grit sandpaper just
enough to get a tad bit of ivory on the sandpaper and smell it. Plastic or micarta has almost no odor while ivory smells almost like rotting flesh or pooh.
 
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