Menacing dogs

golok

golok

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Oct 20, 2000
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I didn't know the American Staffordshire terrier can be so fierce. What kind of dog is that?




WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) _ New Zealand passed a tough new dog control law Thursday banning the import of certain breeds in response to the savage mauling of a 7-year-old girl in a suburban park.
Carolina Anderson suffered horrific facial injuries in January in an attack by an American Staffordshire terrier. Her family has campaigned ever since to toughen dog control laws.
Local Government Minister Chris Carter paid tribute to the girl and her family for doing something beneficial for New Zealand society.
Under the new law, menacing dogs must be leashed and muzzled in public, dog owners must fence their properties to contain their animals and all puppies must have microchip identification inserted from Jan. 1, 2007.
A national database of registered dogs will be set up for the nation's 500,000 canines.
Imports of four dogs considered fighting breeds, American pit bull terriers, Dogo Argentinos, Brazilian Filas and Japanese Tosas, are banned. Those already in the country must be muzzled in public.
 
Its the official name for a "pitbull". As for "menacing" that depends a lot upon the individual dog, how they were raised and how they're treated. Unfortunately, lots of people get these kind of dogs because they want something "tough" (to help the owner feel "tough). As a result they either mistreat or neglect the dogs. I've met a number of really sweet pitbulls. They require lots of attention, and they, more than most breeds, need to be constantly reminded who's boss. Without the proper attention, they *can* become aggressive, with the proper attention, they're great dogs.

I would suggest to anyone reading this, not to get one of these dogs unless you are willing to give them a lot of time, attention and excercise. If you are, you'll be rewarded with a wonderful, well behavied, protective member of the family. If not, you have a ticking time bomb, just waiting for someone to push the wrong button.

Hey! How'd I get up here on this soap box?
 
it's all in how the master raises the dog, not the breed, except maybe with a wolf dog. Geez talk about big government.
 
I have a pitbull here in Brazil. He was given to me as a puppy and I thought we'd give him a chance. He has turned into the nicest, most affectionate dog I have ever had and I used to raise Labs!

He is excellent with the kids. My son crawls all over him and he just lays there and soaks it up like sunshine. He is fiercely loyal. I am convinced that if someone was to jump our fence (electric no less) that Bandit would eat him.

Everyone told me that it was all in the way they were raised. It is obvious that Bandit has an enthusiasm for things that could be worked with, maybe turned to the dark side, but he is a great dog. (He did eat one of our rabbits)

I had to dominate him as a puppy, but now when I approach he goes into instant submission posture. Mac

BTW I have never met a "Fila Brasileira" that wasn't whacko. The only people here who buy them are whackos who treat them poorly to make them agressive. Maybe someday I'll buy a pup and see what happens.
 
Originally posted by golok
I didn't know the American Staffordshire terrier can be so fierce. What kind of dog is that?
Click to expand...

Golok,

The AmStaff is one of a group of dogs that are referred to as Pit Bulls. Strictly speaking, there's an American Pit Bull Terrier, as well as the AmStaff and the Staffordshire Terrier, which is a British dog. You generally have to have a pretty good eye to tell the difference, though, which is why people confuse them. I've also seen people add American Bulldogs and the Olde English Bulldogge (yeah, there is such a creature, but it's a re-creation) to the group.
That said, Pit Bulls as a group aren't bad dogs, but people who raise them to be aggressive are. The real problem is that they tend to be very 'alpha' dogs, and if you're not the kind of person who can't tell a dog something and make the dog believe you, then you don't need to own certain kinds of dogs. Not that I'm an absolutist, but some people just can't control their dogs. My wife, for instance, is not the kind of person who should have an alpha dog.
As far as biting goes, though, I'd much rather have any kind of Molosser (with the possible exception of a Fila, Presa Canario, or Tosa Inu) than a Cocker Spaniel or a Scottish Terrier. Those little b@$%@^ds bite more people than you'd believe. They just don't do as much damage.
If you'd like to do some breed research, there's an interesting site with a breed index at http://www.moloss.com/001/ptxt/breed.html which lists almost all the Mastiff/fighting dog types.

Man. I'm verbose today. Hope y'all don't mind.

James
 
Chow chows are biters. In general, they are extremely protective of their families and are also dominant. They will not hesitate to attack something that they don't like. They are very difficult to control because it is their nature to attack first, and ask questions later.

A few other dogs are like that -- they have a natural tendency to attack anything that displeases them or that they cannot control. (I do agree that, for the pit bull, it is mostly the owner that makes the difference.)

Keeping such a dog under control essentially means overcoming the dog's nature with discipline. That is a very, very difficult thing to do. I doubt many people fully understand the dilligence required.

A person who has one of these breeds really needs to be the dog's master, not its owner. Dogs are pack animals, and require a heirarchy. If you aren't the dog's master, it will try to be yours.

Scott
 
The Pitbulls are a mixed lot. The original pit dogs had to exhibit more than just viciousness to win in the pit...this might include an ability toward mental coolness, endurance, and a balanced temperament. However, their breeding does result in a dog that has lost the natural prohibition from killing their own species. Most pits will attack with ferocity other four-legged creatures tho this can modified with socialization and dominance by the master.

One problem is that American backyard breeders have messed with the breed. Many breed for viciousness or large head or body size. These folks have turned out quite a few psycho dogs.

As a former pitbull owner, I have a problem with the idea that the pits are exactly the same as other dogs and that their ferocity is due solely to the treatment by their owner. This is definitely NOT the case.
 
The American Pitbull Terrier, and American Stafordshire Terrier are very closely related and can even have dual registry. Do you remember Petie from the little rascles. He was one of the first dual registered dogs. Many times the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and Bull Terrier are included in the "pit bull" breads.
I have owned one American Pitbull Terrier, and 2 Staffordshire Bull Terriers. The Stafordshire Bull Terrier is the English breed that the APBT was developed from. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier has much shorter legs and does not get as big, usually 40 LBS or less.
In my experience these dogs can be exceptional companion dogs. They are great with children. As with any breed(even humans) how they are raised and socialized is what makes the difference. I do not understand why anyone would want to make their dog mean and aggressive, but it can be done. These dogs and larger breads in general have so much ability that when someone does get bitten damage is done. Many more people are bitten by smaller dogs each year they just are not able to do much damage. I think some of these rouge owners need to be held accountable for their actions.
These dog breads are great and make exceptionally loyal companions. My dogs might lick you to death but that was about it. The media has really given these dogs a bad name that is not justified!
The Dogo Argentinos are beautiful mastifs from Argentina. They were bread for hunting the wild boars and jaguars. The ones I have seen were very well behaved and friendly. I did not have any hesitations about letting my 2 and 5 year old boys play with them. These were the same dogs that they were using to catch wild boars with! I am saving to get one at the present time.
In case you can't tell I love these dogs.

Tom
 
Originally posted by beezaur
Chow chows are biters. In general, they are extremely protective of their families and are also dominant. They will not hesitate to attack something that they don't like. They are very difficult to control because it is their nature to attack first, and ask questions later.
Click to expand...

I have an EXTREMELY alpha bitch Chow Chow. The first time she snarled at me after a command I clean and jerked her and pushed her up against the ceiling. She got the message and realized she was beta.

Two days later I had to do it again... and again.... and again... this dog is still testing me every day 12 years later. She is totally convinced she is alpha over everyone and everything and needs daily reminders she is beta.

Got her at two years old and she had been abused. We thought she had hip dysplasia but it healed up about 6 months later and we figured out somebody just kicked the s&*t out of her before they dumped her at the pound. With her bad attitude, I'm not surprised. Would things have gone better if we'd got her as a puppy? Who knows?

Everyone, before you get yourself into an aggressive dog breed, check your own gut. These can be very difficult dogs that need incredible patience and persistence. I love my dog and have never beaten her (would just piss her off anyway) but I know EXACTLY why she ended up at the pound.

Voice tone is crucial. Every command must have drill sergeant expectation of obeyance. Praise must be sincere and frequent. These kinds of dogs are easy to ruin and can be tough to maintain. Do it wrong, you get a dangerous nuisance dog that needs to be put down. Do it right and you get a lovely loyal companion... that needs constant reminders to stay that way.

Don't take on one of these aggressive dogs unless you are totally commited to doing all it takes to make them into a family companion. Don't abandon them in your back yard. They MUST be with you as a part of your pack at all times.

The rewards can be incredible. Gracie Chow Chow was at the dog park when two guys stopped and started trying to drag a little girl off a swing into their van. Our Chow ran over and got between the girl and the men and started barking and menacing before we even noticed the girl was in danger. The guys took off and the abduction was thwarted.

Before you train a dog, train the owner in dog psychology. Our Chow was about to be destroyed when we saved her. Now, one little girl can grow up safe because of our choice. Trained properly, most aggresive dogs can be dangerous just to the bad guys. Teach them the difference, they'll remember.

There are very few truly bad dogs, there are a lot of bad owners.
 
Everyone,

I've never posted on this board, but you touched on a subject close to my heart. Many people don't realize that the American Pitbull Terrier was THE symbol for american stength and courage until, I belive, the fifties or sixties. They were originally bred to be non-agressive towards humans and any that showed any signs of human aggression were put down. Because the dogs could do so much damage with one bite it was considered unwise to keep such dogs alive. I did about a full year of reading about molossers before I settled on getting a pitbull. I've never regretted my decision. My boy Logan is just over two years old now and at about 75lbs one of the biggest pure bred pitbulls I've ever seen. He's a joy to have, listens well, and loves my daughter to death. On the other hand my boston terrier gets into fights every time I turn my back, never listens, and knocks my daughter down if she's in his way when he's going for the ball. :) That's more my fault than his though. I caution you that the pitbull isn't for everyone. You do have to spend time training them and let them know whos boss. I can't suggest a group training class enough. it socalizes the dog, and lets you meet other dog owners. The local Petsmart has a very gifted trainer working there, and Petsmart offers several different classes at reasonable prices. It always kinda shocks people to see a pitbull with an AKC Good Citizen certificate. Do the reasearch, meet the breeds, find out what works for you. Most of all remember, ultimately any wrongs your dogs commit are your responsability to make right. It's bad enough that breed selective legislation exsists at all. Don't give them any more fuel for the fire! Oh yeah, go to moloss.com. A great site with lots of info, managed by good people. Offically stepping off the soap box.

- D
 
D,
I'm glad to see another person has rediscovered the american pitbull terrier. They (and the related breeds) are great companions. Well said D.
I am currently working on getting an Argentine Dogo from the argentine dogo rescue. If everything goes well I will have my new dog by next week. I can't wait. I have had 2 Stafordshire Bull Terriers and thye were GREAT dogs, very gentle with my children. As with any dog early socialization and training are the keys to a long and happy relationship with your dog.
Tom
 
I don't usually come to this forum but there are a few really interesting threads here and I have more free time than usual...........
Pitbulls have gotten poor press because of perverted programing by the dogfighting culture. Assimilating the dog into the human pack is each owners' responsibility. While training a dog to be alert, suspicious and aggressive in appropriate guard dog circumstances is one thing, programming a dog to be aggressive on command and to fight another dog for sport(?) without regard for his own life, seems an abomination to me. I just don't understand the vicarious human attraction there. I contend that any maturing dog will contend for a higher position in the "pack" structure, a human family in the case of pets. A firm but gentle "hand" will guide the dog into it's appropriate place in the family pack. It requires 'tuning in" to the dog's perspective and commiting personal responsibility to the job of assimilating into polite society, a formidable creature capable mauling and even killing an adult human.
 
I was out walking my dog once and we walked past a grizzled old pit bull lying in his own gateway. Scared the crap out of my dog who went ape and barked for all she was worth. That grand old dog just got up and walked inside his yard and lay down again. I couldn't stop my bitch from barking, so dragged her away as fast as I could. The old boy whimpered with longing but never stirred. My dog could have been hash in a flash! Now don't get me started on the Rottweiler from across the road that sneaked away from her master when he had his eyes turned for a second and came over and grabbed my dog by the scruff of the neck and shook her. She was pretty sore for a few days and scared stiff for months, poor old girl. That was a nasty dog. Scary stuff. I had a blade, and no intention of drawing it!!

Regards, Neophyte.
 
Speaking of Rottweilers... what's the opinion here on European Rottweilers -- the longer, sleeker kind?

Thanks,

-jon
 
Well all I can say after over 18 yrs as a paramedic I wish I had a dime for everytime I went on a Pitbull bite where the owner said "its been just a wonderful dog I raised from a pup" "wouldn't hurt a flea". Usaully this happens as I am taking a family member (frequently the child ) to the hospital all torn up. akraven

PS This breed MUCH more than any other breed!
 
"Pitbulls have gotten poor press because of perverted programing by the dogfighting culture."

They are purpose built for the pit. They wouldn't even exist otherwise. They are game dogs. The programming that you speak of was bred into them and is natural as much as a Pointer has been bred/programmed to point.
 
I'm on my second pit bull, and I haven't found a better breed that fits me.
As far as loyalty and being a great all-around dog they are the top. I think people tend to forget that pit bulls are terriers and just about every terrier breed was bred to kill something, even the tiny yorkshire terrier was bred to kill. Therefore they are all aggresive, it's just that no pays attention to aggresion in the other terrier breeds because they are so small. As was stated before pit bulls aren't even near the top of the list of dogs most likely to bight ( i think the cocker spaniel is still the at top with the lab not far behind), but when they do there is more damage.

I do believe that it is the responsibilty of the owner to keep that aggresion in check and I'd argue with anyone that says that's not possible. My first pit bull was a large male, about 70#, that i got before i was married. After being married there were never any problems with him and my wife, he accepted her into his "pack" without any problems. Sometime later when she brought home a miniature dachsund puppy he did nothing but baby that dog. He'd lay down on his back let that pup jump and bite all over him. As a matter of fact the only time I had a problem with him and another dog was when a red heeler (and those dogs are a$$holes) attacked him. All he did was knock the dog down and hold it down by the scruff of the neck. After we got him to let go the other dog wasn't even bleeding.

What kills me is that everytime we hear about a dog attack or bite on a person nobody ever bothers to ask what the person did to provoke it. From what i've seen the majority of the time the person did something to provoke it. Which leeds me to this, if you don't understand dogs and how to act around them, especially ones that naturally have a high aggression drive, then stay away from them, you just make things worse. Kids need to be taught how to act around them too. My wife has large extended family with a lot of little kids, and everytime they would come to visit we'd teach them how to act around the dog. They would play with that dog all day without one problem. Ignorance causes more problems than anything.

If you think that the only reason these dogs exist is because of dog fighting check your history. The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) was bred from the Amstaff by mixing it with larger mollosers like Boxers to get a larger, more athletic animal that could be used in many situations. The APBT has a tradition of military service, and was used by ranchers to protect their cattle from coyotes and wolves, there are many other examples. The dog fighting is just a side result caused by cruel people.

That's my rant, sorry it took so long.
 
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