Meth Labs

Dr. Mudd said:
Besides a "chemical smell," just what does a meth lab smell like? :confused:
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A cat box that hasn't been cleaned for a few weeks.

They make molotov cocktails for a reason :thumbup:
 
Awesome thread. I don't have anything to contribute except to say thanks for bringing it up and sharing your thoughts on it, everyone.:thumbup:
 
I can assure you that your tax dollars were not involved, this wasn't law enforcement, it was revenge. For the individuals involved it was a 100% loss of their weed supply for several years running. Mess with me and then try to grow on land I know in the dark? Mac
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Just curious to know Pict, what did these guys do that you were taking revenge on them?
 
I can assure you that your tax dollars were not involved, this wasn't law enforcement, it was revenge. For the individuals involved it was a 100% loss of their weed supply for several years running. Mess with me and then try to grow on land I know in the dark? Mac
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OHHHHH!!!
That's different!!!
Yeah I would take action too if they were growing on my land :cool:
Was it YOUR land?

If it wasn't my land I would want either a pound or 5,000 bucks to keep quiet ;)
Then again maybe they would try and snuff me out for the knowledge :eek:
 
Just to point it out, for those who didn't notice, pict's location is "Brazil, Central Highlands" which may indicate a different culture and different expectations.
 
The numbers of people who trap and the numbers of people who grow pot are relatively small in relation to the general population. Trappers who trap in the same area know who traps, you run into them at odd hours in odd places and you all sell fur to the same people. Its just standard behavior that when you run into someone else's set you don't approach any farther and leave it alone. So then when you wake up at o'dark hundred and hike several miles in the dark to find your traps actually stolen it tends to irritate, repeatedly. After a few times there is ample evidence, especially if you can track. It wasn't just us either, others were getting messed with.

It came down to one particular large dysfunctional extended family who both trapped and grew weed in large enough volume to sell. Mess with our traplines in winter, we shut down your grows every summer. August was always fun.

I don't recommend actively looking for pot gardens, we were always well armed (shotguns) and still cold from winter, it was personal. It is fun though, its all tracking/scouting. Mac

ETA: Esav, that was in PA. I'm an American.
 
I have not ran on any here in the #1 state for lab siezures. But I can spot the users, thier teeth are rotten black. For some reason it really does a number on teeth.
 
We would inform the police of the locations, sometimes even lead them to the gardens. They were always enthusiastic about going out and chopping them down. It made them look great, it made us happy and they kept our names out of it. Mac
 
I have also read reports of tow behind camper trailers being used and then sold off-- have a care if you are buying one. If it has that stench or the sellers are suspect, pass it up. The chemicals are residual on every surface and could cause nasty problems.

2Door
 
I used to work at one and the pay sucked!
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That's funny. It especially sucks if you get busted. Takes a lot of meth to pay the lawyer bills not to mention seving time in prison. :)

The oder varies depending on what chemicals are used. If it is a Nazi type lab, hydrous ammonia is used and frequently there will be a urine smell inside the house. These are often the first labs to show up in an area that previously did not have labs. With Red Phosphorous labs, the most common smell is a iodine or hospital like smell. The smell is not "natural" and every house that has had this smell has had meth in it either used heavily or cooked. Key trash other than ephedrine tablets blister packs are red stained coffee filters, containers containing bi-layered liquids, plastic tubing mixed with other characteristic trash, coleman fuel cans (sometimes lots of them), empty containers for acetone, drano, flares, lots of matches, batteries (lithium), needles and other drug use paraphanalia.

Labs that you find out in the woods are often the "one pot method" which is a mixture of the above mostly, but the cook is done in one container. I hear you don't get as refined a product with this method.

It takes a heat source to make the stuff and an open flame such as a coleman stove are very dangerous as the vapors can be quite flamable. Hence, hot plates and regular electric stoves are most commonly used.

All of the usual drug use behavior is associated with meth. There is often many stolen items present as well. Once addicted it is very hard to stop using this drug.

The reason that many meth cookers have poor dental hygiene is that the vapors degrade the enamel on your teeth and after repeated exposure. Teeth are subject to decay must more quickly than you would expect for a "normal" person with poor dental hygiene. Drug stores always look at a person's teeth. They also routinely have cameras recording the sale of products now. Video is used to identify the runners who buy the stuff and they get busted too (eventually).

If you cook meth, be sure to throw away your receipts from the drug store. :) Police recover these and follow the trail back to the locations where stuff was purchased. I find this rather humorous actually.

Vans and small trailers are being used more frequently these days due to the ability to have electric appliances inside that work and for the operators, they can head for secluded places to do their manufacturing. This is often where the dump site materials are found after the fact. It is harder to detect the fumes that are odorous if done out in the woods.

Added: If you are out walking around in the woods or hiking and you encounter people (or a vehicle and people) that you sense should not be there or you observe suspicious or paranoid behavior, or any non-typical odors. Stay away and call the police. Do not try to hang out or even walk by close. These people know they are doing something illegal and you may be taking your life in your hands by just being in the wrong place.
 
22-rimfire said:
I have never run onto one in the woods, but I certainly would recognize the waste products. I have run onto a few inside houses that have been busted and overlooked by law enforcement. I clean labs sites up. I have three I'm working on currently. Fun, right?
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Rimfire, please take every precaution available for your protection. I work at the DEA Training Academy (systems admin, not agent) and I've read some sobering reports about mid to long-term health issues among first responders. They're just starting to come to an understanding of how seriously toxic these labs are for anyone who is not protected properly. If anyone else here comes across a clandestine lab, for christ's sake don't go poking around, they are bad mojo. Also, one thing not mentioned here yet is the possibility of booby traps, particularly in large marijuana grows. They are usually designed to maim, (with main intent to wound law enforcement and force them to attend to evacuation, giving time for the bad guys to get away), but they're not particularly picky about that. I'd provide some gruesome pics, but that would violate my position here.

Be safe,

Dave
 
they are bad mojo

All the more reason to know what you are looking at. I think I now know more about meth labs now than I ever wanted to know. That's some sick stuff. Mac
 
General Specific said:
I work at the DEA Training Academy (systems admin, not agent) and I've read some sobering reports about mid to long-term health issues among first responders. They're just starting to come to an understanding of how seriously toxic these labs are for anyone who is not protected properly. If anyone else here comes across a clandestine lab, for christ's sake don't go poking around, they are bad mojo. Also, one thing not mentioned here yet is the possibility of booby traps, particularly in large marijuana grows. They are usually designed to maim, (with main intent to wound law enforcement and force them to attend to evacuation, giving time for the bad guys to get away), but they're not particularly picky about that. I'd provide some gruesome pics, but that would violate my position here.

Be safe,

Dave
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Dave, to the extent that it's possible to do so without breaking any rules, can you elaborate about two things you mention above:

1. What more is known about (a) what these long-term health effects are, and (b) what the dangerous residual chemicals are that cause these problems? (I don't care much about what's used to make the stuff, except that I'd like to have a good enough idea to be able to tell if my kids and I have stumbled across a meth-lab-dump-site; I am, however, curious about what the residual toxins are, if that happens to be publicly-available knowledge.)

2. What kind of booby traps should I be on the lookout for?

I've spent a lot of time in the outdoors, usually in Arizona, which at least used to have a lot of meth activity. Maybe less now; I get the feeling that law enforcement is rolling these guys up pretty well, at least compared to a few years ago. But my kids and I love little more than hiking, camping, exploring--and that seems to bring us into exactly the kind of place where this stuff happens. About a year ago I heard of a pot farm that was found upstream on a usually-dry river that I think I've taken the kids hiking in, so I'm guessing the odds are fairly good that in the next decade or two we may run across some of this stuff.

Thanks for whatever information you can legitimately provide us!
 
This thread sure allowed some of the drug fiends to show their stripes.

I don't go near a meth lab or a grow spot. They are sometimes boobytrapped and the the druggies are usually violent. Heck, the average deputy or ranger probably shouldn't go near them either.

Have seen the results of a few science experiments gone wrong. Gruesome... yet fitting.

If it wasn't my land I would want either a pound or 5,000 bucks to keep quiet
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That makes you a principal in the entire operation. Think 8 years or so in federal prison (no parole) at a minimum.
 
pict said:
I know most of these labs are in town I was surprised from the maps to see so much of it in the midwest.
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I've mentioned this several times in the past, but working at a farm supply company that deals in anhydrous ammonia (nitrogen fertilizier for corn), we get to see first hand how big of a problem it really is. The police (supposedly) told someone to quit calling all the time reporting anhydrous theives. Our company board president held several thieves/meth heads at gunpoint in the woods behind his house. Another local elevator didn't think they had a problem with anhydrous theft until they mowed the tall grass behind their lot, and discovered over 30 improvised hoses left by thieves after stealing ammonia. Yet another local supplier tried adding padlocks to the whole fleet of tank wagons at their plant, and all of them were broken within 2 or 3 nights. One of the trailers on my father-in-law's mail route burned down after their meth lab exploded.

I have found a trash bag full of the empty pill bottles/packets when out in a field. I have called the police twice when I stepped outside my home and instantly recognized the unmistakeable smell of anhydrous ammonia thick in the air, in the dead of winter when no farmers were using it. Nothing further came of that.

I could go on, and on, ad nauseum.
 
Return of the J.D. said:
Dave, to the extent that it's possible to do so without breaking any rules, can you elaborate about two things you mention above:

1. What more is known about (a) what these long-term health effects are, and (b) what the dangerous residual chemicals are that cause these problems? (I don't care much about what's used to make the stuff, except that I'd like to have a good enough idea to be able to tell if my kids and I have stumbled across a meth-lab-dump-site; I am, however, curious about what the residual toxins are, if that happens to be publicly-available knowledge.)

2. What kind of booby traps should I be on the lookout for?

I've spent a lot of time in the outdoors, usually in Arizona, which at least used to have a lot of meth activity. Maybe less now; I get the feeling that law enforcement is rolling these guys up pretty well, at least compared to a few years ago. But my kids and I love little more than hiking, camping, exploring--and that seems to bring us into exactly the kind of place where this stuff happens. About a year ago I heard of a pot farm that was found upstream on a usually-dry river that I think I've taken the kids hiking in, so I'm guessing the odds are fairly good that in the next decade or two we may run across some of this stuff.

Thanks for whatever information you can legitimately provide us!
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J.D., please see the link at the bottom. It has a good overview without going into excrutiating detail. Anhydrous Ammonia and other volatile organic compounds would worry me the most... It also gives some examples of booby traps relating to meth labs. In regards to marijuana booby traps, the most prevalent ones that I've seen reported are along the lines of punji trap types and shotgun shells in a small wooden "box" that are set off by a tripwire. Most of these use a mousetrap sort of arrangement to strike the shotgun shell primer. Obviously, the shell's effects would be attenuated by the half-assed setup, but they do work well enough to deter or at the very least slow raids down.

In the article below it looks like the long-term effects have not been conclusively assessed. My earlier comment was based on a report I ran across last year that gave some statistics on LEO first responders to meth labs who later developed serious health complications which were being at least tentatively attributed to contact with labs. I'm sure you'll understand that there will not be a lot of literature available for this sort of thing unless the data is ironclad. Law enforcement agencys are not keen at all to speculate publicly on the possible links. This would leave them open to lawsuits and compensation claims etc. by first responders, although it looks like the training for small departments has greatly accelerated in order to meet the new awareness.

http://www.iaff.org/HS/Resi/Methamphetamine final.htm

The only "good" news is that small lab production has gone down somewhat due to the crackdown on over-the-counter psuedoephedrine sales. This has pushed a lot of the manufacturing back down to good old Mexico.

Happy hiking,

Dave
 
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