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Micro Brand watches ?
- Thread starter skyhorse
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Yup, Pagani Design is one of them!
Seriously, they aren't at the top or at the bottom of the Chinese micro-brand pyramid. They do fairly close copies of Swiss and German luxury brand watches, but they're not letter perfect copies. Some are offended by their lack of originality, others by their less than total lack of originality. I guess that goes with the territory. Some say the basic info and photos of their new models are unreliable. That is a more serious accusation. I don't own one, but I've ordered their fairly close copy of an IWC pilot watch, and I will post photos unless it's too awful to post.
San Martin gets a lot of votes as the top of the pyramid, but they don't get everything right and they're more expensive than most. One thing in their favor: besides their store on Ali Express, they have their own web site, WR Watches, which doesn't collect U.S. sales tax.
I recommend two threads in Watchuseek's Affordable Watches forum: "Best of Ali Express?" and "Show your SteelDive, Sharkey or San Martin." These hobbyists post photos of everything and they go on and on about their favorites. When you get tired of that, go to the Chinese Mechanical Watches forum and listen to serious collectors make fun of the Ali Express hobbyists. San Martin has just launched its own forum at Watchuseek. Plenty of good information there. It's all about checking photos for things that appeal to you, and following up to learn more. There is no substitute for good photographs. Look at enough of them and you'll start to develop your own taste.
Seriously, they aren't at the top or at the bottom of the Chinese micro-brand pyramid. They do fairly close copies of Swiss and German luxury brand watches, but they're not letter perfect copies. Some are offended by their lack of originality, others by their less than total lack of originality. I guess that goes with the territory. Some say the basic info and photos of their new models are unreliable. That is a more serious accusation. I don't own one, but I've ordered their fairly close copy of an IWC pilot watch, and I will post photos unless it's too awful to post.
San Martin gets a lot of votes as the top of the pyramid, but they don't get everything right and they're more expensive than most. One thing in their favor: besides their store on Ali Express, they have their own web site, WR Watches, which doesn't collect U.S. sales tax.
I recommend two threads in Watchuseek's Affordable Watches forum: "Best of Ali Express?" and "Show your SteelDive, Sharkey or San Martin." These hobbyists post photos of everything and they go on and on about their favorites. When you get tired of that, go to the Chinese Mechanical Watches forum and listen to serious collectors make fun of the Ali Express hobbyists. San Martin has just launched its own forum at Watchuseek. Plenty of good information there. It's all about checking photos for things that appeal to you, and following up to learn more. There is no substitute for good photographs. Look at enough of them and you'll start to develop your own taste.
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True, true, you don't need to copy blatantly or subtly, and I'll add that you don't need to be blatantly or subtly original. You only need to be "micro" i.e. small. But that wasn't the OP's question.
He saw a YouTube review comparing an out-of-production Rolex Submariner to a Pagani Design copy, and he wanted our thoughts. I assume he meant our thoughts on the $95 Chinese watch. IMO any watch under $100 with a Seiko NH35 movement, a sapphire crystal and a steel bracelet is worth consideration, but a badly fitted or broken watch is no bargain and I've never seen a sample of this micro-brand.
As for the YouTube review, IMO it was a BS review, and not because the reviewer said up front he was paid which probably meant he got a free watch. I wouldn't give him cash, he's not that good. He actually compared the warranty cards and said the Chinese card was acceptable although plastic! That card had no signature, date of purchase, seller's ID, no warranty. The only warranty on these watches is who you buy them from. Some merchants will help you, some won't. The manufacturer might be a bunch of people sitting in an apartment assembling parts. Then the reviewer showed the Rolex warranty card's case, but he didn't take the card out because then you could see it had a signature, date of purchase, seller's ID and address. More similar BS throughout the review, but Pagani Design did a good job of copying external appearance.
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I don't recall saying that , please enlighten me ?
Well you didn't. That's why I didn't quote you. It's just my general observation.
There are lots of cool micro brands that do their own thing. I hate to go there but it's kinda like knives. If you don't want a CRK Sebenza you have an embarrassment of riches of other choices at that price and higher or lower. You don't need to get an off brand copy.
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As much as I think the Rolex Submariner is a good looking watch,I'd never wear one given my daily activities. Lol, most people buy these for daily beaters and I highly doubt they're embarrassed to wear them.,
I think the Submariner is pretty much at the Kleenex/Band-aid situation for it's identity as a tool watch. But obviously the prices and the availability and tine way they've become investments makes it tough to use one daily.As much as I think the Rolex Submariner is a good looking watch,I'd never wear one given my daily activities. Lol, most people buy these for daily beaters and I highly doubt they're embarrassed to wear them.,
I just think if you're venturing into that kind of small batch watch there's a wild amount of choice and going straight to that style could make someone have second thoughts.
I know I look at them all the time and when I find a lot I like that some people would probably call homage but has enough of it's own design not to be a copy.
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I see these merely as beater watches , although I've never owned one, When I'm out and about in town I rarely see people under 40 even wearing wrist watches nowadays.
I've owned a wide variety of watches, some at the low end of the price range. Just because a company copies a popular brand doesn't mean they are a bad company. Almost every company that makes watches has made copies of the Rolex Submariner. The watch community calls them "homages", not copies. Of course there are some companies that make outright fakes, that's a different story.
Regarding small companies, the watch community calls them "boutique brands", you have to do some research to find out if their quality is acceptable or not. I've bought $100 automatic watches that were of good enough quality so it is possible. I don't know about the brand the OP is asking about but it should be possible to find some information on the internet.
A small brand is likely to use a very inexpensive Miyota automatic movement. They run well enough but will not be very accurate. Of if you buy one with quartz movement then you will get a similar movement to 95% of quartz watches under $300. I've taken apart a variety of them to change batteries and they all seem to use about the same movement.
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The cheapest Chinese mechanical watches use movements you've never heard of, and some are unbranded so you don't know what you bought. These can be ok or worthless junk. I'm talking about $35 watches.
At the next step up the quality ladder, you may be offered a Seagull movement or a Miyota movement which costs more. A micro-brand I've bought is Corgeut: they sell the same watch with a Seagull movement for $70 or a Miyota movement for $80. The Seagull movement is an ST16; the Miyota movement is an 82XX, nowadays usually 8215. These are old-fashioned entry level movements with design peculiarities some regard as problems related to the second sweep hand, which is indirectly driven.
The Miyota 82XX "stutters": if you bang the watch or shake it, the second sweep may freeze for one second and then jump ahead two seconds. I own old Citizen watches with this movement (Miyota is part of the Citizen group of companies). I've never noticed this but I'm sure they stutter. They hand wind but they don't hack.
The Seagull ST16 copies Miyota's train layout, but its winding mechanism uses Seiko's "magic lever." It has a second stutter like Miyota 82XX. It hand winds and hacks, and hacking adds another peculiarity. You need to set and release the second hand gently but firmly with a precise touch. If you're off, the second hand jumps several seconds when released. My watch jumps 2½ or 3 seconds. I set it at 7:29:57 and release the second hand at 7:30. That's close enough.
To repeat, these are old and old-fashioned entry level movements. Entry level Swiss movements of that generation had indirect drive and similar problems.
If you're a careful shopper, you'll get better a better movement by paying more. In a $100 watch, look for a Seagull ST17 or a Seiko NH35 movement. The Seiko is a modern entry level movement that hand winds and hacks. Seagull ST25XX series and Miyota 9000 series are better and the watches cost more. I own a Parnis watch with a Miyota 9100 movement.
Day, date, month, power reserve, and a 24 hour sub-dial: that's a lot of complications for a Japanese movement. Mine gains 8 seconds per day. The one you usually see is Miyota 9015 and that's pretty much top-of-the-line for Chinese watches in the $200+ price range. You'll pay more for a Sellita SW200, a Swiss copy of ETA's 2824, but it isn't a better movement.
I have a Timex field watch I use for that. It's run on the same battery for what seems like a decade. Yeah it's a quartz watch but if I break it or the strap fails it's easy to replace (that would bug me if that happened though).
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I wore this quartz gem for several years until the finally battery died , I should replace the battery someday. Lol, I paid $20 for it at a Big 5 store.
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I bought this Timex Expedition to wear at work a month before I retired in October 2002. I bought it at Sears before I became watch conscious. Anything I took to work had to be expendable and Timex was cheap although not the cheapest. It went missing and I thought I'd left it at work, but I found it under my desk at home in March 2015, still running. It died a few weeks later and I threw it in a desk drawer
Nothing beats old-fashioned Timex field watches for battery life, but changing batteries is a pain. They have snap-on case backs which saves Timex a few cents. You need a watch opener blade to remove them and a watch case press to put them back on. Those are cheap tools you can improvise if you have a good tool collection, but that's why mine is in a drawer. Also, it has a notched leather strap and those are a pain to replace.
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Another good one, but it has four screws and I've never tried opening one. I might try if I grow a third hand.I wore this quartz gem for several years until the finally battery died , I should replace the battery someday. Lol, I paid $20 for it at a Big 5 store.
Watchmakers use a machine to open and close these. If you live in a place big enough to have a jeweler's row, that's where you'll find one. The less expensive ones are on the upper floors. A real watchmaker changes batteries and resizes bracelets for a fair price. You might come back with your dad's vintage Rolex. Unlike the guys in the mall, a watchmaker will replace the case back gasket and lubricate it with a drop of Trident silicone grease.
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Pagani Design review posted.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/what-watch-do-you-wear.814427/post-20746991
John Phillips
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Just bought my first Helm Automatic Vanuatu. Completely amazed!!!!!! Not crazy about their other line of watches. The Vanuatu is $400-$600 on the secondary market because the wait list is soooooo long, I think they are $335 new from Helm which blows my mind considering what you get. I like it so much that I’m going to buy another and put it away.