Micro chipping on paper blue steel (Higonokami)

Kevin-B

Kevin-B

Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
442
Hello knife folks!

So i have a problem with micro chipping. I have recently purchased another higonokami which has a paper blue steel blade and i tried to sharpen it (as i do with all my new blades) and for some reason i keep experiencing micro chipping.
After reading about it for a little bit i came across a thread that said it might be due to too using much pressure, too coarse of a stone or maybe a factory error.

Do you guys have any advice and how to get rid of those micro chips?
Whats the best angle to sharpen your blades? I usually go with 15-20 decrease.

Thanks!
 
With Japanese blades, often the "first layer" is prone to chipping - at least with kitchen knives. After a sharpening session or two the problem goes away.
You will find reports of this at the forums of chef knives to go
 
Ourorboros said:
With Japanese blades, often the "first layer" is prone to chipping - at least with kitchen knives. After a sharpening session or two the problem goes away.
You will find reports of this at the forums of chef knives to go
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Hey,

Thanks for your reply.

I have sharpened this knife for i don't know… 5 times (ish) Even reprofiling and everything. But whatever i do the chipping just seems to comeback or maybe not go away in the first place.

I have heard that often with these handmade not high class knives the maker can screw up the heat treatment. Especially since the Higonokami is a fairly mass produced knife.

My opinion is that sadly in this case the heat treatment if off. And because of that my 15/l-20 degree angle just cant hold itself. I have used my exact same sharpening techniques on other blades and i have had great succes.

With this all being say about it not being able to get a shaving sharp edge and having some chips in it…it’s still a very sharp knife. And it’s perfect for my daily need ls of cutting up apples and other fruits for lunch. This knife might be a rotten apple in the bunch haha.
 
If the steel is heat treated too hard, you should be able to get a steep angle on it - far more that 15 degrees per side. And get it screaming sharp.
It will just chip a lot under stress.
 
Kevin-B said:
Hey,

Thanks for your reply.

I have sharpened this knife for i don't know… 5 times (ish) Even reprofiling and everything. But whatever i do the chipping just seems to comeback or maybe not go away in the first place.

I have heard that often with these handmade not high class knives the maker can screw up the heat treatment. Especially since the Higonokami is a fairly mass produced knife.

My opinion is that sadly in this case the heat treatment if off. And because of that my 15/l-20 degree angle just cant hold itself. I have used my exact same sharpening techniques on other blades and i have had great succes.

With this all being say about it not being able to get a shaving sharp edge and having some chips in it…it’s still a very sharp knife. And it’s perfect for my daily need ls of cutting up apples and other fruits for lunch. This knife might be a rotten apple in the bunch haha.
Click to expand...
Hey, I have the exact same problem with one I bought this year.

Regardless of degrees per side, abrasive used, sharpening method used it always chips when setting the apex. I’ve tried at least 6 times on this particular blade with the results being the same. I’ve destressed the edge a few times, and twice far more than should ever be necessary on any blade, and it makes no difference on this blade.

I won’t be buying another.

Edit: just to confirm that yes, it’s the same steel as yours.

Edit:

After reading some others accounts here on BF of blue paper steel and sharpening it I tried it on my Shapton Ha No Kuromaku stones with success. A very strange steel this…a Japanese steel that required Japanese abrasives. I only used the #1000 and #2000 to test it. No problems.
 
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I've sharpened blue steel on all sorts of stones including diamond stones and it sharpens fine on everything including bottom of a coffee mug. It is just a clean low alloy steel (blue 2 or blue 1), even blue super is relatively low alloy compared to high alloy steels. In any case there is really nothing special about blue steels that require special stones. Any quality stone will do and they sharpen similar to other low alloy steels. It is always possible that the heat treat on the particular knife is screwed up or that the previous edge was burned, but that is not steel related.
 
scottc3 said:
Anyone know composition, grit / micron of this stone?
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Yes, here’s a chart of the shapton (HNK/M24) and Naniwa (Chosera) stones I use that I put together.

Under Chosera I’ve also included the Junpaku (Snow white) and A3 (Kagaku or Chemical) as they are also magnesia bond.
5-FF350-AE-A1-FB-4-FD3-A008-F8-F4-A597-A7-BF.jpg
 
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Kevin-B said:
Hello knife folks!

So i have a problem with micro chipping. I have recently purchased another higonokami which has a paper blue steel blade and i tried to sharpen it (as i do with all my new blades) and for some reason i keep experiencing micro chipping.
After reading about it for a little bit i came across a thread that said it might be due to too using much pressure, too coarse of a stone or maybe a factory error.

Do you guys have any advice and how to get rid of those micro chips?
Whats the best angle to sharpen your blades? I usually go with 15-20 decrease.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hey Kev,

What sharpening method are you using??
Blue steel is normally a great steel to sharpen and gets very sharp easily.
I've had the occasional problems with Blue2 using medium/course diamonds and also a Sharpmaker.
 
Blade touches the frame when folded and it gets chip when the blade is sharpen very thin. I place a piece of leather in between.
 
I'm also discovering the unique, fickle nature of the Blue Paper Steel in a Higonokami I recently purchased. As with my preference in nearly all of my knives, I initially went a little narrower with the edge angle, as compared to the factory edge. I did find some edge instability and/or chipping issues as well. But I'm also noticing as I've resharpened it using various stones experimentally, the edge seems to be gradually stabilizing and doesn't seem quite as chippy, which seems to track with an earlier comment here along the same lines.

Based on what I've seen so far, I'm inclined to agree with FortyTwoBlades' description above^, in avoiding stones with greater grit protrusion (like plated diamond hones) and keeping the pressure very gentle & light in the refining stages. The knife is still a learning work in progress for me, but that's my impression so far.
 
A microbevel helps with them, as well, and is actually present from the factory. Keep the zone behind the edge thinned down, but finish out with a few light strokes on fine stone at a raised angle. By keeping the backing geometry thin it'll keep the cutting performance up. I think a lot of folks sharpen them like a scandi and then get frustrated when the now-thinned angle is too delicate. If you check out the factory edge under good light you'll find there's a small secondary or micro present.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
A microbevel helps with them, as well, and is actually present from the factory. Keep the zone behind the edge thinned down, but finish out with a few light strokes on fine stone at a raised angle. By keeping the backing geometry thin it'll keep the cutting performance up. I think a lot of folks sharpen them like a scandi and then get frustrated when the now-thinned angle is too delicate. If you check out the factory edge under good light you'll find there's a small secondary or micro present.
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This is exactly what I've noticed as well. The first sharpening or two, I did treat it just like a Scandi, grinding the full width of the bevels all the way to the apex. But the edge proved to be too unstable, leaving it as such. So, more recently, I've been using my Sharpmaker to apply a minimal microbevel after the initial sharpening, and then doing essentially the same for light touch-ups after the fact. For the sake of edge stability, that's worked the best so far and not just for this knife, but also for most of my other knives as well.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
I'm also discovering the unique, fickle nature of the Blue Paper Steel in a Higonokami I recently purchased. As with my preference in nearly all of my knives, I initially went a little narrower with the edge angle, as compared to the factory edge. I did find some edge instability and/or chipping issues as well. But I'm also noticing as I've resharpened it using various stones experimentally, the edge seems to be gradually stabilizing and doesn't seem quite as chippy, which seems to track with an earlier comment here along the same lines.

Based on what I've seen so far, I'm inclined to agree with FortyTwoBlades' description above^, in avoiding stones with greater grit protrusion (like plated diamond hones) and keeping the pressure very gentle & light in the refining stages. The knife is still a learning work in progress for me, but that's my impression so far.
Click to expand...
Micro bevel on a hard ark and you will be whittling hairs.
 
garry3 said:
Micro bevel on a hard ark and you will be whittling hairs.
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That's the trend I seem to notice in what this steel responds to. In refining, it seems to respond better to a polishing approach on a very fine stone - so the hard Ark could fill that requirement I think. I've done some experimenting on some inexpensive Ark stones, including a translucent and a small black hard pocket stone. Most of my other daily-use knives are in somewhat softer low-alloy stainless and they seem to favor a slightly toothy finish anywhere between a Fine India (360-400) and a medium ceramic like Spyderco's brown Sharpmaker rods. The same works well for some of my other carbon steel blades, like 1095 or Case's CV. But that approach has left me wanting a bit when I've tried it with the apparently harder Blue Paper steel of the Higo.
 
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My go to solution for chipping is a softer bond and edge trailing strokes. If you still have chipping with all of your stones then try loaded strops. They work like magic when you can't find a stone to work with the chippy blade.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
That's the trend I seem to notice in what this steel responds to. In refining, it seems to respond better to a polishing approach on a very fine stone - so the hard Ark could fill that requirement I think. I've done some experimenting on some inexpensive Ark stones, including a translucent and a small black hard pocket stone. Most of my other daily-use knives are in somewhat softer low-alloy stainless and they seem to favor a slightly toothy finish anywhere between a Fine India (360-400) and a medium ceramic like Spyderco's brown Sharpmaker rods. The same works well for some of my other carbon steel blades, like 1095 or Case's CV. But that approach has left me wanting a bit when I've tried it with the apparently harder Blue Paper steel of the Higo.
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I do the hard ark thing with a knife mostly just for entertainment, I usually finish on a coarser stone with a little more tooth on the white and blue steels. I'm not very good for recommendations though because I finish those steels exclusively on naturals, you might try a soft ark if you have one.
I know lots of guys like stones in the 4 to 6k range.
 
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