Microtech steels

H

hanzo hattori

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Apr 14, 2022
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Looking for feed back on Microtech’s latest blade steel runs, I’ve recently heard from a few friends that they are running their m390 a bit soft. Are these facts I don’t know since I haven’t tested to hrc. Given this data I’m currently looking at few knives from their line up which are Elmax and 204p and obviously M390. My question is which of these steels would you guys and gals go with and why. Thanks In advanced.
 
All three are excellent steel options. Most AD Microtech stock seems to be in M390 as of late, so unless you’re looking at the secondary market you’ll more than likely end up with M390.
 
Microtech's M390 has tested in the 58-60HRC range. That's comparable to most manufacturers, and a little bit softer than Spyderco in particular. Microtech likely tempers their M390 in the lower tempering band (200-300C, 57-59.5HRC before cryo) which provides the highest amount of corrosion resistance.

My M390 Microtechs have all been tough and not prone to chipping, so I'm happy with their heat treatment.
 
HP2114B said:
Microtech's M390 has tested in the 58-60HRC range. That's comparable to most manufacturers, and a little bit softer than Spyderco in particular. Microtech likely tempers their M390 in the lower tempering band (200-300C, 57-59.5HRC before cryo) which provides the highest amount of corrosion resistance.

My M390 Microtechs have all been tough and not prone to chipping, so I'm happy with their heat treatment.
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Running M390 that soft is absolutely pointless. Hinderer is learning this lesson now too, after both Spyderco and Benchmade dealt with it a year or so back. Guys like Outpost76, Supersteel Steve, etc. have done cut tests and soft M390 doesn’t even outperform S30V. So, if the blade steel is at a sub-optimal range for HT, why even use it? What’s the point? There’s dozens of other steels they could have used with high toughness at lower HRC. But taking a highly wear-resistant steel like M390 and running it out of spec is just ridiculous. Chippy or not at that range, you might as well be running S30V.
 
Murdamook said:
Running M390 that soft is absolutely pointless. Hinderer is learning this lesson now too, after both Spyderco and Benchmade dealt with it a year or so back. Guys like Outpost76, Supersteel Steve, etc. have done cut tests and soft M390 doesn’t even outperform S30V. So, if the blade steel is at a sub-optimal range for HT, why even use it? What’s the point? There’s dozens of other steels they could have used with high toughness at lower HRC. But taking a highly wear-resistant steel like M390 and running it out of spec is just ridiculous. Chippy or not at that range, you might as well be running S30V.
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Exactly this is what I’m talking about.
 
Murdamook said:
Running M390 that soft is absolutely pointless. Hinderer is learning this lesson now too, after both Spyderco and Benchmade dealt with it a year or so back. Guys like Outpost76, Supersteel Steve, etc. have done cut tests and soft M390 doesn’t even outperform S30V. So, if the blade steel is at a sub-optimal range for HT, why even use it? What’s the point? There’s dozens of other steels they could have used with high toughness at lower HRC. But taking a highly wear-resistant steel like M390 and running it out of spec is just ridiculous. Chippy or not at that range, you might as well be running S30V.
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The point would be corrosion resistance. M390 in the lower tempering band is nearly a salt steel. 58-60HRC is not out of spec, it's just not the high wear resistance spec. M390 only marginally outperforms S30V at the same hardness anyway, and the difference between M390@59HRC and M390@62HRC is less than 50 CATRA cuts.
 
HP2114B said:
The point would be corrosion resistance. M390 in the lower tempering band is nearly a salt steel. 58-60HRC is not out of spec, it's just not the high wear resistance spec. M390 only marginally outperforms S30V at the same hardness anyway, and the difference between M390@59HRC and M390@62HRC is less than 50 CATRA cuts.
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I mentioned 204p and Elmax due to all the latest models that are shadows which have sterile blades are M390, 204p and Elmax. When taking these knives apart it’s surprising. What do you guys think about those blades in general.
 
HP2114B said:
The point would be corrosion resistance. M390 in the lower tempering band is nearly a salt steel. 58-60HRC is not out of spec, it's just not the high wear resistance spec. M390 only marginally outperforms S30V at the same hardness anyway, and the difference between M390@59HRC and M390@62HRC is less than 50 CATRA cuts.
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CATRA isn’t real world use. High hardness M390 vastly outperforms S30V. You can go see the cut tests for yourself. Regardless, the 50 CATRA cuts isn’t scoff-worthy when Larrin’s own data shows s90v only 17 more cuts over optimally heat treated M390. What’s more is that a comparison of two Spydercos in his same data set shows M390 vastly outperforming S30V at optimal heat treat using similar edge angle and behind-the-edge thickness. Anyhow, using corrosion resistance as an explanation is a non-starter. How frequently are these performance knives with M390 actually being used in highly corrosive environments? In all honesty, I think you’re misrepresenting the benefits of M390 because I have literally never seen anyone claim they’re using M390 specifically for corrosion resistance. Wear resistance is the most desirable train as it pertains to M390 and running it soft all but negates that advantage. You can pull up the forum post in which Larrin and other educated people discuss it.
 
What will you be using the knife for? What do you typically use your knives for?

Side note: saying a steel is on par with s30v in edge retention doesn’t sound like a bad thing, to me anyway.
 
Could they be sending them out this way to ensure no brittleness?
 
Let me see, whose judgement to go with… guy who has been making high-end production knives for 30 years and has some of the best custom knives you can buy, or generalized remarks from guy on a knife forum claiming that “soft” m390 is equivalent to s30v.. decisions decisions.

Sorry, I’m going with Tony.
 
Murdamook said:
CATRA isn’t real world use. High hardness M390 vastly outperforms S30V. You can go see the cut tests for yourself. Regardless, the 50 CATRA cuts isn’t scoff-worthy when Larrin’s own data shows s90v only 17 more cuts over optimally heat treated M390. What’s more is that a comparison of two Spydercos in his same data set shows M390 vastly outperforming S30V at optimal heat treat using similar edge angle and behind-the-edge thickness. Anyhow, using corrosion resistance as an explanation is a non-starter. How frequently are these performance knives with M390 actually being used in highly corrosive environments? In all honesty, I think you’re misrepresenting the benefits of M390 because I have literally never seen anyone claim they’re using M390 specifically for corrosion resistance. Wear resistance is the most desirable train as it pertains to M390 and running it soft all but negates that advantage. You can pull up the forum post in which Larrin and other educated people discuss it.
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CATRA isn't real world use, but neither are Youtube cut tests.

M390 is marketed by Bohler for use in plastic injection molds. The two characteristics it's intended to excel in are wear resistance and corrosion resistance. M390 is one of the most highly stainless steels available, superseded only by LC200N, H1, Vanax, etc. Are you saying that knife manufacturers aren't accounting for one of its two primary features? Microtech cites its high corrosion resistance on their steel page, and Larrin discusses it at length on his website.

As far as manufacturers increasing M390 hardness in the past few years, that's a direct response to market pressure from a customer base which is obsessed with edge retention. It has no bearing on what defines a preferential heat treatment from a manufacturing or overall performance standpoint.

S90V greatly outperforms M390 in wear resistance, by something like 150 CATRA cuts at the same hardness according to Larrin's data.
 
Murdamook said:
Running M390 that soft is absolutely pointless. Hinderer is learning this lesson now too, after both Spyderco and Benchmade dealt with it a year or so back. Guys like Outpost76, Supersteel Steve, etc. have done cut tests and soft M390 doesn’t even outperform S30V. So, if the blade steel is at a sub-optimal range for HT, why even use it? What’s the point? There’s dozens of other steels they could have used with high toughness at lower HRC. But taking a highly wear-resistant steel like M390 and running it out of spec is just ridiculous. Chippy or not at that range, you might as well be running S30V.
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M390 is twice as tough than S30v at HRC 60, and much more stain resistant. I hate the chips that I get in my M390 Spydercos, and I couldn’t care less about youtube rope or box cutting videos. My Hinderers are just fine, thank you very much. He still uses s35vn in some newer knives, BTW (Spanto Fulltrack, for instance). Nothing wrong with that.

If I want high wear resistance, I prefer s90v anyways.
 
My experience has been that I haven't seen a big difference between S90
V, and M390
S90V is better; but I'd hate to have to live on the difference!
 
Murdamook said:
How frequently are these performance knives with M390 actually being used in highly corrosive environments?
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About as often as someone is using it for its max edge retention. You can't claim you want one extreme use case while simultaneously saying another extreme use case is non-existant. Besides, in my experience, corrosion resistance is far more important than edge retention, especially in knives with small nooks and crannies and proprietary hardware that's hard to disassemble and maintain.

As others pointed out, the YouTubers are complaining for clout and views (every YouTuber you mentioned is monetized in some way). I'll err towards trusting the manufacturers who have been making knives for decades over the guy who just wants you to watch his latest "HRC update" video so he can make a little money
 
To answer OP's question, I don't think it's really going to matter. None of those steels are different enough to be noticeable, and I don't think Microtech is doing an exceptional enough heat treatment on any of them to make any of them stand out.

Honestly, I wouldn't buy a Microtech for steel performance.
 
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