Mid-level Binoculars - Best Bang for the Buck?

Wow, alot of differing views. You should find a noticable improvement between $300 and $1000 binoculars. Those who don't see the difference have not learned what to look for and thats OK for them because they don't know what they are missing. At your price range you should be looking at porro prism design binoculars vs. roof prism design. A $200 porro prism will probably match the $1000 roof prism in visual performance. Porro prism designs reflect light internally one less time than roof's leading to better performance. Where roofs have the advantage is waterproofness and size. It really boils down to your priority. Do your research on the previously provided web sites. Also 8X is all that most people would ever need. Any higher leads to shake and fatigue. Beware of some of the posts as their is some inaccurate info being provided. Exit pupil is the same for all 8X30 binoculars and cannot be changed or improved. Do your research and buy according to your priorities. If hunting or severe weather is a concern go with roof prisms. If visual performance is your goal at $200 than a porro design will match the more expensive roofs. It is not my intent to offend anyone, just to pass along helpful info.
 
Re the Carsons.

My initial issue is that they are Chinese, with no US support station I could find, (it may be there but i did not see it) so who handles warranty work?


re the steiners, they are in fact adjustable, very easily so, and focus at precise objects is not difficult to do if you set the glasses right from the start.

While birders often want the most precise glass, they are also not the best choices for all around use.

in the old days of single and uncoated glass, the only way to get more light to your eye and thus more resolution was to make the objective lense bigger, For years the standard S&R style was the 7x50, 7 power was enough to let you see objects, yet not so much as you got sea sick from looking thru them on a moving boat or airplane. 50 was then chosen as it allowed a 7mm exit pupil, or the little spot of light on the exit lense when you hold them up and look, that was chosen as that was just a titcsh wider than the human eye could open and there fore, you would providing all the light that can be used. While the physics of this still remain true, the practical concepts have somewhat changed. Better, purer, clearer glass, combined with coating systems that improve the transparancy of the surface of the glass, (less reflection, more light passage) better tooling to make and shape the glass, and the use of lasers to correctly point the lenses in the lights path are now used to get unheard of performance out of glasses that cost far less.
 
I have the good fortune to live near a Cabela's and have looked thru several brands.

IMHO, European is the way to go. I've owned Leica, Steiner, and Minox. Of course, the Leicas were the best; but not enough to justify their significantly higher price.

I found that Kahles and Minox have better optical quality than Steiner. I think Kahles is the best bang for the buck. Saying that, I bought Minox because they were almost as good, but less expensive.
 
Guntotinfool,

The Steiner's might be his best option, they're probably fine glasses and are a compact and durable set of binos from a well known company. I'm sure they're great. To read your posts, you obviously think very highly of them and you seem to have a way better than average grasp of optics. Which is why I find it confusing that you'd say they are as good as a set of high end binos like Zeiss, Leica, etc..

The ability to actually mechanically change the focal length of the binos in real time to obtain sharper focus and more detail is desirable to more people than hard core birders (I'm not one). Hunters, law enforcement, perhaps even some military units might like more precision than the Steiner auto focus approach. Never mind the gear head that likes precision stuff :) I'm not suggesting that top end Euro optics from the big names are appropriate to the original question asked by the thread starter, but you must admit, there is a difference.
 
In my house right now, i have Zeiss, Pentax, Swift, Steiner, and B&L.

The Zeiss 8x 30 classics are good. absolutely, they are high quality, very very good optically, but to my eyes, they are only the very slightest bit better than the Steiner's. They are not as tough, have minimum focus distances that are not as short as the others. and they are not rubber armored. and they cost about 4 times the cost of the Steiners. They are pretty heavy but not the worst.

Pentax model we have, the DCF 8x43 are very good too, in some ways the best, but are bigger, and less convenient to use. They will close focus down to 5 or so feet, and my wife loves them for watching her bird feeders. They are not as good as the steiners at low light, and have just a hint of pin cushion when pushed out for long distance. The convenience part comes at the method for readjusting the set for individuals. They cost two and half times the cost of the steiners.

The Swifts are US navy issue 7x50s that just got back from an overhaul. They are now very good. the overhaul included re-columization (sp) or parrelleling up the two sets of lenses. This is apparently was one of the reasons they never seemed as sharp and gave us eye strain after just afew minutes. I think this could be a sleeper if you can find a good set. New these cost the navy about 800 bucks a pair, but Swift is now just a nameplate, I think they are importing all of their stuff now.

The B&L are the old customs, in 10x40. While not a terribly expensive pair, they were at the time considered the bargain of the century as they were some of the first laser aligned binoculars (a step which was invented not for quality, but for speed). If you mounted the binoculars in a fixture, and turned the laser on and the dots hit the marks, they were done, no time consuming, expensive, expert optician sitting there fiddling about, just adjust and when they lined up, they were done, faster, easier, more precise. As these binox were Made in America at the old B&L factory in Rochester NY, they were considered to be great buys, and they were. The best part was getting the lenses aligned so well, sharpness was just eye popping. I think the original cost on these were $300 or so, but at the time, that was about double the cost the steiners on the street price.

The steiners, 8x30 military marine, are very good, easy to adjst to individual eyes, very tough, light and easy to carry, no carrying case, just rubber lens caps that are attached. Not the brightest, but very bright, so close to the brightest. Not the sharpest, but really sharp, no discernible pincushion. Very easy to use, great for ball games and the like where the action goes from here to there very fast, I can sit behind homeplate in the upper deck, watch the pitchers grip, catch the batter hitting it and watch the outfielder catch it, all without adjusting the focus. easy to carry, they fit in my chest pockets in most of jackets, the strap does suck, it is just about 3/8's of an inch wide and does dig in, but the explanation for that was that in a war situation, if you got snagged by the strap it would break before it hung you. The Military and marines are NATO issued. They work very well, and they cost under $200 USD.

The OP was for a good pair of under 200 or so binox, when you have a pair that competes with 5-900 dollar glasses you have to at least suggest taking a look at them.
 
The Steiners are a porro prism design and should perform well at their price point. Visual performance in a roof prism design costs alot more to achieve. It would not be unrealistic to expect the Steiners to perform as well as much more expensive roof prism designs. At the price point set initially I would only consider a porro prism design. Having said that for me personally I own both types and favor my 2 pairs of Zeiss Victorys over my quality Unitron (aka Mirador) porros. They are also much more expensive.
 
Guntotin Fool,

That was a very eloquent essay on optics, your experiences with them and your opinion of their relative values and merits.

It's obvious that you've been interested in quality optics and have spent considerable time and money over a period of time looking to see what's what..

You've almost got me considering a pair of Steiners instead of the Leica 8x20's I've been sort of lusting over.

Thanks for the info.
 
J. MacDonald said:
You've almost got me considering a pair of Steiners instead of the Leica 8x20's I've been sort of lusting over.
Click to expand...

Don't

Take a look here:

http://www.kikkertspesialisten.no/

...then > KIKKERTER (binoculars), then > Test Kompaktkikkerter 8x20 / 10x25 etc. / Compact binoculars (Dec 28, 2006) > HENT TEST

Leica 8 x 20 rate at No.1

Steiner are No.28 (out of 29 tested).

Sharpness: Leica 10, Steiner 4

Contrast: Leica 10, Steiner 3

Etc.

Buy quality and only cry once.

maximus otter
 
Leupold Wind River at Walmart----10x42--Jap made-----$199---blows my old 8x30 Steiners away---have never really been impressed by them to tell the truth-----the set I lust for are the 10x25 Leica's---but at $500---not happening any time soon.
 
omaha-beenglockin said:
...the set I lust for are the 10x25 Leicas...
Click to expand...

"As you increase the magnification you are also magnifying every motion of the binoculars. It is next to impossible to extract information from an image that is bouncing around.

With practice, and given exceptionally well balanced binoculars, the average birder can learn to extract detail from a 10 power image. Extracting detail from an 8 power image is even easier, and, in objective tests conducted by Zeiss, birders consistently extracted the most detail (at least on eye charts) from a 7 power image.

As noted above, my experience has been that there is no practical difference in the amount of detail you can see in hand held binoculars of equal quality between 7 and 10 power. There is, however, a real difference in the amount of fatigue generated over a day's use. The extra effort and concentration needed to hold 10X steady and extract detail will tire many birders after a fairly short time in the field, especially if the depth of field is shallow enough to require constant refocusing. A tired birder will, in the long run, see less.

There are exceptions, of course (see the Swarovski review), but my general recommendation, after years of testing and using binoculars, is that 8X is just about the ideal power for birding...enough power to give a satisfyingly large image of the bird, but not enough to cause undo fatigue."

http://www.betterviewdesired.com/BirdW.html

maximus otter
 
Some excellent advice from some experienced folks! My $0.02 worth, coming from almost 40 years' of outdoor experience (100+ hunting days per year... plus camping, boating, birding, etc.)...

The BEST binocs are the ones you always have with you. Sometimes the most expensive, best quality binocs get left home because they are heavier and more cumbersome. My experience tells me that the most useful binocs are the 8x30 range... plenty of horsepower in the optics, great compromise on size and weight, easy to carry and use, etc.

I have 2 pair in the 8x30 range that I personally recommend: Leica and Steiner. 2 VERY different cost ranges, and while you do get what you pay for with optics, the Steiner's will serve most people very well for an entire lifetime.

I've never missed an elk, a bear, a deer, or a woodpecker due to the Steiner's. That said, the Leica's do perform even better.

AJ
 
Overall, all the higher end companies make great mid and high end binos. leica, leupold, burris, swarovski, zeiss, kahles, steiner, kowa and nikon. Ya couldnt go wrong with any of their mid priced sets i believe. Just find the size and magnification you desire, then hunt for the lowest price.
My personal experience has been with the steiners, zeisses, leupolds and burriss'. As far as overall quality of construction and clarity of picture? steiner all day. (not that the others were beneath it, its just my opinion.)
As far as value. best bang for the buck? Burris. If you can afford it, buy the steiners though.
 
Anyone know anything about Alpen? I keep seeing them at a local gun show and they have quite a range of prices. While I can tell their $800-900 ones look good, my unsophisticated eyes can't make up their mind about the $200-300 ones. I have seen some good reviews on them, but I would rather go by experience- also, they would seem in the threadstarter's price range too.
 
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