Mid-size fixed blades in CPM-M4 or M390? (Also, some steel questions)

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cm_bushman

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Oct 22, 2012
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The title pretty much says it all, are there any out there right now? I know the mules can be found, but other than that, the only customers I've found have either been pretty small, custom, or otherwise extremely expensive.

So, are there any mid-sized fixed blades in production in M4 or M390 for less than $350? Also, how would the S35VN in the CRK fixed blades compare with these? Or the 3V from the various manufactures producing blades this size?
 
Big Chris can make you something that would suit your needs. Do a search for the knives he sold here and get a feel for what he can make.

Yes, it is custom, but his turnaround time for the knife he made for me was just a few weeks to a month. Lightning fast in the custom world.
 
Thanks for the Spydie Southfork link Vinito.S90v is also intruiging, and another steel I haven't seen much of in fixed blades outside of a select and pricey few.

Hmm, that's the second time in 3 days I've been recommended to Big Chris, I may have to drop a line and see what's what. I'm just a little wary of customs, having only seen very expensive examples so far. I'm currently saving for a GSO 5.1 in ELMAX or 3V. Are there plans to release a new version of the GSO in M390?
 
I have a small fixed blade in S90V in the works withg Big Chris. He is a great guy to deal with and I second the recommendation!
 
cm_bushman said:
Or the 3V from the various manufactures producing blades this size?
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I haven't worked with either M4 or M390, but from what everyone who has has told me, they should both be a little less tough but have noticeably better edge-holding than 3V (which is pretty darn good in its own right) at similar hardness. For a mid-size fixed blade I think that would be just fine.

Lots of guys use CPM-M4 blades for cutting competitions, and they beat them pretty hard on the 2x4 events.
 
I would love to get my hands on one of those Strider DBs in CPM-3V. The videos of Brady from Monkey Edge trying to wreck that thing are intense.
 
With regard all of the talk of S90v, and the toughness of 3V.

From the various sources I've seen, the toughness of 3V is 3x that of D2, and the wear resistance of the two is roughly equal, though in some cases I've seen data giving the edge to 3V at Rc60+, though for a trade to the toughness.

My question then is about s90v. Some of these same sources list it's toughness on par with D2. Is this what you guys have experienced in the past? Are there many reports of excessive chipping or breakage of s90v blades? Is the difference in toughness extremely appreciable in practice? I'm certain the difference in wear resistance must be.

In short, I'm asking whether or not you guys consider s90v "tough enough" for a general use camp knife, or if you think the gains in toughness of the other steels outweigh s90v's wear resistance. M390, ELMAX, and CPM-M4 all seem a good compromise of these properties with great corrosion resistance to boot, excepting the last.
 
I have a SOG team leader in Duratech 20CV which I believe is Latrobe steel's M390. I got mine when it was still in production and I would say that the steel performs the same as my M390 BM 710. They can be had for about $100 on the "Bay" when they show up for sale now that they are discontinued. It's a very underrated knife. My Spyderco Phil Wilson Southfork is even more fantastic, but about double the price. The S90V is amazing. There are a few reviews of it in the spyderco sub forum. A few on the Team Leader on the SOG sub forum too.
 
I have done some battonning with S90V and have not had any chipping issues. I once went right for the center of a big Cedar knot to see what would happen. The edge deflected and left a dent in the edge, but no chipping. The damage was mostly cosmetic and would not have stopped the knife from performing it duties. I have done this same test with 3V with pretty much the same results. If I had not ground the edge so thin this would not have happened to either knife. S90V can handle a lot of use before it needs even to be touched up. An entire weekend of food prep, whittling whatever found wood, fuzz sticks, and scraping for tinder bundles did not even slow the edge down. Some stropping when I got home brought the knife back to popping hairs. S90V really shines in the kitchen, I have not used many steels that are as aggressive cutters with a polished edge.
 
Big Chris said:
I have done some battonning with S90V and have not had any chipping issues. I once went right for the center of a big Cedar knot to see what would happen. The edge deflected and left a dent in the edge, but no chipping. The damage was mostly cosmetic and would not have stopped the knife from performing it duties. I have done this same test with 3V with pretty much the same results. If I had not ground the edge so thin this would not have happened to either knife. S90V can handle a lot of use before it needs even to be touched up. An entire weekend of food prep, whittling whatever found wood, fuzz sticks, and scraping for tinder bundles did not even slow the edge down. Some stropping when I got home brought the knife back to popping hairs. S90V really shines in the kitchen, I have not used many steels that are as aggressive cutters with a polished edge.
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Sounds about right, S90V is a great steel, much better and tougher than some would believe. :)

One has to be careful with S90V though, it's a dangerous steel because some people will think it's dull while it's really not and it will still cut like crazy. :D

Yes it's great in the kitchen too. :)
 
CPM-M4 is a fantastic steel in my opinion. There are several makers that would be happy to work with you (I am sure) to create exactly what you want within or under your budget.

If you are interested, shoot me a PM and I can put you in touch with someone I would recommend.


This is a small knife I EDC (and have for several years) I have used it for batoning, carving, shaving, you name it...this thing has seen it and is holding up nicely! I


These are obviously a bit larger, but they have seen some SERIOUS use and hold edges like nothing else I have experienced.

Regarding comparison to S35Vn...there is little comparison IMO. S35Vn is a nice blade steel, but it follows a very different curve in terms of dulling. M4 will retain a VERY sharp fine edge much longer (i.e. you can chop with it until you are worn out, and still pushcut newsprint). S35 has some phenomenal working properties, but stabilizes to a "working sharp" edge at a higher rate than M4. In my experience, it takes very little work to push S30 and S35 duller than shaving (arm hair) sharp. Not a thing wrong with that, but depending on how sharp you like your blades to stay, it may be important.
 
A relatively smaller fixed blade knife in CPM-M4 is the Bark River Essential EDC.
It's 2.75" blade with a convex grind that is designed for pants pocket carry, and has an OAL and blade length which works well for that.
It's a little on the heavier side at almost 5 ounces, but it's solid.
Probably around $200 for micarta or basic woods, and more for fancy grade scales.
 
cm_bushman said:
The title pretty much says it all, are there any out there right now? I know the mules can be found, but other than that, the only customers I've found have either been pretty small, custom, or otherwise extremely expensive.

So, are there any mid-sized fixed blades in production in M4 or M390 for less than $350? Also, how would the S35VN in the CRK fixed blades compare with these? Or the 3V from the various manufactures producing blades this size?
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For that size of a knife, what 4" to 5" going with a steel with better edge retention would be more of a benefit than going with a super tough steel compromising edge retention and stainless properties.

M390 is VERY stainless and will hold an edge for a VERY long time.

S90V is also VERY stainless and is a step up from M390 edge retention wise.

CPM M4 holds and edge well, but not as well as the above 2 depending on the HT and final hardness.

S30V and S35VN are great user steels and will perform well so they provide a good balance of cost and performance for a field knife.

ELMAX will be slightly better than S30V and S35VN edge retention and stainless wise.

3V is a nice steel, but it's better suited for the larger chopper type blades.

Other notable choices would be CPM 154, excellent steel and 154CM, both are very stainless and will hold an edge well.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback; I've been considering a few 3V knives as a general camp/outdoor/"anything I would prefer not to use my mini-Grip on" blade. I always disregarded s90v as extremely brittle, by what I had read; great fare for small folders, but not for beater knives. The comment on S90v batoning through cedar knots with no trouble is crazy to me then, and makes me doubt just how big of a difference the much-touted toughness of 3V makes in general use (for this blade size, at least).

The BRK EDC was and is the only currently produced fixed knife I've seen in M4 besides choppers, and it is just a bit too small for what I'm looking for right now. The main reason I was considering 3V was the fact that I found little to no knives in this range made in M390 or M4. I think I'll have to end up going the custom route for what I'm looking for, though now I'm more open to the idea.

Ankerson, thanks for the overview, I've been looking over your posts, and your tests from a couple of years ago are part of what turned me on to m390.

Bottom line, would anyone NOT feel totally comfortable using and relying on a 4-6" knife made from s90v, m390, or CPM-M4 long term in the bush, if they had to? Would anyone feel markedly better with 3V?
 
Well, if you're including S90v now, I'd say the Spyderco Phil Wilson South Fork should fit the bill.
It's not a chopper, but it will do every other kind of cutting duty probably better than anything else you'll find for the money.

Personally, I don't think it's possible to do everything with one knife.
I have a camp knife like we're talking about here, and a chopper which in my case is a machete. They do everything I need. If I need to chop or baton or clear brush, the machete handles it. If i need to do camp cutting tasks, the small camp knife does it.

When it comes right down to brass tacks, you could deal with just about anything that could come up, by having only a $15 Imacasa machete and a $12 Mora. Spend another few bucks on a sharpening stone for the Mora, and a mill bastard file for the machete. Done.
 
I would say 3v has good enough edge retention for just about anything. I just got back from an elk hunt, I used my fehrman peacemaker on a nice size bull the other day, and can honestly say I found my go to knife for hunting or heavy woods work. I skinned out and quartered a nice size bull elk and never needed to touch up the edge. I was honestly extremely impressed. The hide was really dirty from wallowing in mud, and I never had a problem. Any one who has worked a bull elk in the field knows how hard they can be on an edge. This is the first knife I have used that didnt need a touch up half way through. Im completely satisfied with cpm3v from now on. Im sure s90v is better, but maybe over kill.
 
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