I don't own a Military because I'm patiently waiting on a second version to come out. I believe I've heard that one is in the works with a new lock design and some similar design mods that the PM2 received, but haven't heard of when it might debut. I don't think it's receiving a compression lock but will not be liner lock from what I've heard. I think a Military with all of the design improvements that the PM2 received would be excellent, and I'll be the first in line to preorder. Any news on a potential Military 2?
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Military 2
- Thread starter uofaengr
- Start date
- Joined
- May 29, 2011
- Messages
- 1,799
Stop lock.
And do you trust Emerson knives with liner locks? Just asking because I heard they are being used by most of the elite operators around the world. Not to mention the horrible amount of blade play I have witnessed on them.
From what I've heard, if/when they release a Mil2, it will be alongside the Mil1 and the Mil1 will continue to be produced. I don't mind liner locks, I have several, but for some reason it's not my favorite on the Military. Plus a 4 way clip would be a nice touch.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,404
well damn, If I knew that most of the 'elite operators' were using an Emerson, I'd have bought one. I am still working on my tactikool chit. 
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
- Messages
- 44,314
This is the Spyderco forum, not the Emerson forum and not general knife discussion. Keep the topic on the company at hand. Comparisons between models of different manufacturers are to be kept in General Knife discussion, not manufacturers forums.
As far as the Military2, I recall reading several years ago it was still on the drawing board, design had not been finalized, no prototype had been created at that point, and word was that it would be a ways off. Don't hold your breath too long.
You should go ahead and pick up a Military.
If you can get over the clip placement, which doesn't bother most, it will prove to be worth every penny.
It has one of the best blade profiles on the planet IMO. Rides nice and thin in the pocket, yet melts in your hand during use.
And I love the liner lock on the military as well.
Im not sure I would like a stop-lock version as much.
If you can get over the clip placement, which doesn't bother most, it will prove to be worth every penny.
It has one of the best blade profiles on the planet IMO. Rides nice and thin in the pocket, yet melts in your hand during use.
And I love the liner lock on the military as well.
Im not sure I would like a stop-lock version as much.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 65
I think that a Military sized Paramilitary 2, and a Paramilitary 2 sized Military, would be awesome.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 737
I was in the same boat as the OP. Waiting patiently for the Millie 2 to be announced not wanting the original military since it just didn't speak to me for one reason or another. Then the cruwear version was released and I couldn't resist. The Millie is now one of my favourite spydies and I'm very grateful I didn't pass on the cruwear. I'm still waiting for the next Millie though. I think it's going to be a long time though.
If you have the mean, grab a Millie now. If not wait. My 2 cents.
If you have the mean, grab a Millie now. If not wait. My 2 cents.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2013
- Messages
- 740
The Cruwear Millie is still selling for relatively cheap on the secondary markets..at least relative to what some of the other Sprint Run Millies sell for..they will probably increase in value as the supply drys up over time..might not be a bad time to get one if your on the fence.
The Millie2 has been rumored for years..who knows when it will show up? Could be years more.
I like the Millie the way it is. The liner lock works great and tip down is fine for me. One of the best knives made IMO.
The Millie2 has been rumored for years..who knows when it will show up? Could be years more.
I like the Millie the way it is. The liner lock works great and tip down is fine for me. One of the best knives made IMO.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2006
- Messages
- 5,963
I still love my Military and as Sal once mentioned they will keep the original design. Thank goodness.
For those that think a liner lock cant take punishment.
[video=youtube;-MxCDbAW638]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MxCDbAW638[/video]
Here are comments from Sal on the Military I dug up.
Lock
Good points and good discussion.
I think that it is important to "peel the onion" in making these determinations. Also one must include "time" and refinement" in analysis.
Any lock can fail. If you didn't hear it. Any lock can fail.
Locks are bits of metal cut to very close tolerances and carefully balanced heat treats. The interface area is ciritical.
Failure can occur from error, out of spec, wear (time), dirt affecting the interface, excess force, which bends or coins the interface, etc.
Locks require maintenance, attention, occasional light spine tap to check. In case you didn't hear that, light is the key word. I see many locks that have seen "death by spine-wack". Expectations are often too high in this area, in my opinion. If a light tap defeats the lock, then inspection, cleaning, etc can save the lock. Each time it defeats, it "breaks" a tiny bit more. Continual spine whacking without making a change and expecting a change is not logical. It also ruins the lock.
With that in mind.
Each lock mechanism has advantages and disadvantages. Manufactures continually refine to reduce disadvantages. Eg: We're on our 3rd lock material on our Military in 10 years. As manufacturers learn more, they improve. (time again).
The Walker linerlock has some very nice advantages; easy one hand open and close, smooth action, easy to overcome closing force for easy opening, takes up little space affording far more flexibility in design. Simplicity of concept.
disadvantages; it's difficult to make reliablle. Much attention needs to be paid to the materials and hardness of the blade material (tang) and lock interface. (This is also true of lock-backs, Axis-locks, compression-locks, E-Locks, Reeve-Integral-Locks, ball-bearing-locks, etc).
On the Military we've contually refined this area. We use an offset concave arc ramp for greater reliability. We precisely control angles and hardness of the interface materials. We've gone to dual nested liners (very close tolerance) with focus on greater ridgidity. We could go to a LAWKS like CRKT and we' ve considered it, but at this time, we would prefer to evolve the Walker Linerlock to improve reliability without the addtional parts.
Does this make it perfect? Of course not. Any lock can fail.
But with the constantly improved materials, tolerances, hardness balance, they get better and better.
This is, IMO, true of any lock.
sal
Perhaps "Practice" and "theory" are two legs on the same body, taking turns to move forward.?
Some thoughts to share on the linerlock lock up. Linerlocks are very tricky with the angles of the mating of the tang/lock as well as the hardness of each surface and inheirant qualities of the materials. It is difficult if not impossible to create the right combination that will "lock" properly with light effort and still work well with heavy effort. When one "throws" out the blade using inertia, the force at contact is very great. More oftren than not, such force will push the liner farther over or "tighter" than the light aforementioned pressure was designed for. I would guess that in such a lock up case, the blade was snapped out using inertia and the liner simply locked up too tight to easily unlock. We also found that titanium was a little "grabbier" and "bendier" than steel and even magnified the problem more. I believe that most linerlocks that are opened as designed would probably not have a problem. (assuming geometries and hardness are proper)
sal
Military Design
Gene - Thank you. The Military Model was designed to be the "state of the art" Produc tion folder of the time. We believe the 2nd generation version is that. Every one of the many parts in this model was examined and refined. We listen to all of the comments (good and some negative), but our own constant testing enforces our beliefs. We believe that nested liners are more evolved and stronger than separate liners. And more expensive to produce. (Ask for favorite custom maker how much more they will charge you to nest their "full liner" just inside the scale like Spyderco's Military). "Form", in addition to the "pins" create rigidity. It may be possible to "white knuckle" a lock release, but this hasn't happened to our knowledge. Being able to easily close the knife after hard user with gloves on was a major consideration. Any of you that have had a folder lock open and not be able to close it? It's like a chain saw that won't stop...what do you do with it? The new "SecurLok" that Frank Centofante invented is scheduled to be added to the Military Model somethime in '99. This would eliminate the fear of accidental lock release.
The Military Model was not designed as a fighting knife, nor was it designed for suit and tie carry. It was designed to be the most dependable cutting tool accessory a soldier might need while in the "bush". The handle is a little larger to afford the dual grip potential. Design is always a great discussion because there are so many points of view. eg: blades are for cutting, handles are for holding. A 2" blade specifically designed for controlled cutting loses it's ability to control if the handle is only just long enough to cover the blade. Nothing to purchase on. A scalpel is a good example of this. What is the knife designed to do. Look at? by all means, balance the sizes to apperarance, use? tougher problem here. Just one designers point of view. I have avoided responding to this thread as it was my design in question and this was a comparision type question. It would be expected that I would be biased.
sal
Design preferences make the industry interesting. Both Gayle and Ed are of the opinion that the relief is not as safe as no relief. Both are highly skilled at designing knives, making knives and cutting with them. Both are champion cutters in competition. My linerlock designs include a relief. I'm often wearing gloves and I prefer them in general. I've heard many complain about my Military and Sage linerlock designs because they feel the relief is unsafe.
Both approaches are valid. That's why we make both. For those that want a relief, it's easier to create one.
sal
Military 2 as of 2013/07/24
Hi Eidah,
Welcome to our forum.
We've been making small changes to the Military for more than 15 years. More subtle changes that improve the model. We've had a Military 2 on the drawing board for many years. When we have enough refinements to actually create a Military 2, we'd like to. The model on the drawing board now has a "Stop-Lock". Some thoughts to share;
Making the decisions as to what we can do and what will make a difference in performance or safety.
Engineering the new model is a major project.
We're having difficulty meeting current demand in our Golden facility for all models.
All of our staff is operating at there maximum.
However, this might be an opportunity to bring it more together.
If you are interested, post all of the thoughts or improvements that you would like to see for the Military model, and your reasons for the mod.
I'll need the list compiled into one list so I can bring the concept to an R&D meeting without having to pull it all together myself (I'm pretty busy these deays).
Sal
Stop lock patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6918184
For those that think a liner lock cant take punishment.
[video=youtube;-MxCDbAW638]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MxCDbAW638[/video]
Here are comments from Sal on the Military I dug up.
Lock
Good points and good discussion.
I think that it is important to "peel the onion" in making these determinations. Also one must include "time" and refinement" in analysis.
Any lock can fail. If you didn't hear it. Any lock can fail.
Locks are bits of metal cut to very close tolerances and carefully balanced heat treats. The interface area is ciritical.
Failure can occur from error, out of spec, wear (time), dirt affecting the interface, excess force, which bends or coins the interface, etc.
Locks require maintenance, attention, occasional light spine tap to check. In case you didn't hear that, light is the key word. I see many locks that have seen "death by spine-wack". Expectations are often too high in this area, in my opinion. If a light tap defeats the lock, then inspection, cleaning, etc can save the lock. Each time it defeats, it "breaks" a tiny bit more. Continual spine whacking without making a change and expecting a change is not logical. It also ruins the lock.
With that in mind.
Each lock mechanism has advantages and disadvantages. Manufactures continually refine to reduce disadvantages. Eg: We're on our 3rd lock material on our Military in 10 years. As manufacturers learn more, they improve. (time again).
The Walker linerlock has some very nice advantages; easy one hand open and close, smooth action, easy to overcome closing force for easy opening, takes up little space affording far more flexibility in design. Simplicity of concept.
disadvantages; it's difficult to make reliablle. Much attention needs to be paid to the materials and hardness of the blade material (tang) and lock interface. (This is also true of lock-backs, Axis-locks, compression-locks, E-Locks, Reeve-Integral-Locks, ball-bearing-locks, etc).
On the Military we've contually refined this area. We use an offset concave arc ramp for greater reliability. We precisely control angles and hardness of the interface materials. We've gone to dual nested liners (very close tolerance) with focus on greater ridgidity. We could go to a LAWKS like CRKT and we' ve considered it, but at this time, we would prefer to evolve the Walker Linerlock to improve reliability without the addtional parts.
Does this make it perfect? Of course not. Any lock can fail.
But with the constantly improved materials, tolerances, hardness balance, they get better and better.
This is, IMO, true of any lock.
sal
Perhaps "Practice" and "theory" are two legs on the same body, taking turns to move forward.?
Some thoughts to share on the linerlock lock up. Linerlocks are very tricky with the angles of the mating of the tang/lock as well as the hardness of each surface and inheirant qualities of the materials. It is difficult if not impossible to create the right combination that will "lock" properly with light effort and still work well with heavy effort. When one "throws" out the blade using inertia, the force at contact is very great. More oftren than not, such force will push the liner farther over or "tighter" than the light aforementioned pressure was designed for. I would guess that in such a lock up case, the blade was snapped out using inertia and the liner simply locked up too tight to easily unlock. We also found that titanium was a little "grabbier" and "bendier" than steel and even magnified the problem more. I believe that most linerlocks that are opened as designed would probably not have a problem. (assuming geometries and hardness are proper)
sal
Military Design
Gene - Thank you. The Military Model was designed to be the "state of the art" Produc tion folder of the time. We believe the 2nd generation version is that. Every one of the many parts in this model was examined and refined. We listen to all of the comments (good and some negative), but our own constant testing enforces our beliefs. We believe that nested liners are more evolved and stronger than separate liners. And more expensive to produce. (Ask for favorite custom maker how much more they will charge you to nest their "full liner" just inside the scale like Spyderco's Military). "Form", in addition to the "pins" create rigidity. It may be possible to "white knuckle" a lock release, but this hasn't happened to our knowledge. Being able to easily close the knife after hard user with gloves on was a major consideration. Any of you that have had a folder lock open and not be able to close it? It's like a chain saw that won't stop...what do you do with it? The new "SecurLok" that Frank Centofante invented is scheduled to be added to the Military Model somethime in '99. This would eliminate the fear of accidental lock release.
The Military Model was not designed as a fighting knife, nor was it designed for suit and tie carry. It was designed to be the most dependable cutting tool accessory a soldier might need while in the "bush". The handle is a little larger to afford the dual grip potential. Design is always a great discussion because there are so many points of view. eg: blades are for cutting, handles are for holding. A 2" blade specifically designed for controlled cutting loses it's ability to control if the handle is only just long enough to cover the blade. Nothing to purchase on. A scalpel is a good example of this. What is the knife designed to do. Look at? by all means, balance the sizes to apperarance, use? tougher problem here. Just one designers point of view. I have avoided responding to this thread as it was my design in question and this was a comparision type question. It would be expected that I would be biased.
sal
Design preferences make the industry interesting. Both Gayle and Ed are of the opinion that the relief is not as safe as no relief. Both are highly skilled at designing knives, making knives and cutting with them. Both are champion cutters in competition. My linerlock designs include a relief. I'm often wearing gloves and I prefer them in general. I've heard many complain about my Military and Sage linerlock designs because they feel the relief is unsafe.
Both approaches are valid. That's why we make both. For those that want a relief, it's easier to create one.
sal
Military 2 as of 2013/07/24
Hi Eidah,
Welcome to our forum.
We've been making small changes to the Military for more than 15 years. More subtle changes that improve the model. We've had a Military 2 on the drawing board for many years. When we have enough refinements to actually create a Military 2, we'd like to. The model on the drawing board now has a "Stop-Lock". Some thoughts to share;
Making the decisions as to what we can do and what will make a difference in performance or safety.
Engineering the new model is a major project.
We're having difficulty meeting current demand in our Golden facility for all models.
All of our staff is operating at there maximum.
However, this might be an opportunity to bring it more together.
If you are interested, post all of the thoughts or improvements that you would like to see for the Military model, and your reasons for the mod.
I'll need the list compiled into one list so I can bring the concept to an R&D meeting without having to pull it all together myself (I'm pretty busy these deays).
Sal
Stop lock patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6918184
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2009
- Messages
- 2,696
I have almost the same story as you, except it was a cpm m4 Millie that got me. It never spoke to me before, but I am now aware it is simply the best designed four inch working knife on the planet. it can be hard to really tell its benefits until you carry it everywhere and cut everything for a few weeks.
I never bashed the Military for its lock strength. I stated it wasn't my favorite lock, and that I love the design of the PM2. Maybe we don't need a Military 2, but rather a 4" PM2 variant 
. At the least, there's nothing wrong with wanting a 4 way clip..
. At the least, there's nothing wrong with wanting a 4 way clip..