Military Khukuris [WWII] (markings) - John Powell

To me, the broad arrow in the pix doesn't look like a real broad arrow but my eyes are not what they once were.
 
You're right Uncle. The mark shown is 3 taps with a hammer and steel to fake it. At least the new etched models look like the right shape.
 
again, many thanks for the fascinating & helpful info (I found Berk's history of the broad arrow particularly interesting--I'm fairly familiar with a lot of Crown-related symbols, but this one I was completely ignorant of).

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another question for the experts:--

has anyone ever seen markings like this on a khukuri?:

cho 'shadow' carved in one side of blade:
k-shade1.jpg


some sort of gold or brass/copper inlay on other side:
k-shade2.jpg





cheers, B.
 
That is the royal arsenal mark for Nepal. The khukuri is a nice 19th century example. Plain, but a very good quality blade.

n2s
 
N2S is on it, but with a slight twist.

This crescent can be found on many different arsenals throughout Nepal in the 19th and late 18th century. Any arsenal that was authorized to make weapons for the military and constabulary had to be approved by the court, therefore they all had the title "Royal". The different arsenal variations are dots, circles, sometimes nothing and a repeat of the crescent itself. It is still theory, but a repeat of the mark further down the blade or repeated on the obverse may indicate quality or a blade of ranking.

This also doesn't mean a lot of kukris weren't being banged out in small forges all over the place. Many of these kamis wanted to put their mark on the blade so you find variations that can't be traced to a particular arsenal.

The mark itself comes from a symbol of a crescent moon that was given by one of the Nepalese kings (gotta look up which one)to his closest generals and trusted court members. They were known as a group named the "Band of the Moon.
 
John do we know anything about the ranking kamis of 19th century? The best of them probably marked their work very distinctly.

n2s

Home for neglected khukuries
 
Unfortunately they very rarely marked their blades, nor are there any 'famous' makers like you'll find with the great Islamic blades which are actually signed (and faked). I will have to post a picture of a very old kukri that is 'signed' by a kami, but there is no way to link this mark to the man.

Different culture and a caste system didn't record who made the great kukris. In fact there is almost nothing written about specific makers, armouries, who carried what, etc. Hard to write a book now because no one wrote the book then.
 
Originally posted by not2sharp
John do we know anything about the ranking kamis of 19th century? The best of them probably marked their work very distinctly.

n2s

Home for neglected khukuries
Click to expand...

Does the above mean that perhaps a few kamis once had a certain amount of notoriety and were more favorably looked upon than the average 'untouchable' of today?
Did the Royal Kami at one time have a much more exalted position than Bura has today?
I don't understand the caste system at all. It has never made sense to me nor have I pursued any questions about it.
We are all ignorant* of certain matters and this is one of mine. Can/Will anyone here enlighten me?:)

What gets me the most I guess is that a Smith almost anywhere else in the world was looked upon with great favor. And being a Royal Smith brought a great deal of favor and power to the position. And I imagine it was jealously guarded!!!!
I *think* perhaps some Smiths were honored in that they only had to make swords and other weapons for the royalty.
Does anyone think that is true?

*I was headed off of going on another one of my tirades. I decided Not to be ignorant about that.:D :rolleyes: :p
 
I would dearly love to do a lot more research on the crescent symbol. It is used very frequently on a variety of arms from many different regions from North Africa, through the mideast and into India/Nepal.

Looks like one of our very own forum members got the knife Beoram was referring to. It looks like a nice example. Congratulations
 
Beoram
I will let the buyer identify himself if he wants. I see you have your eye on a pretty nice silver mounted piece. Good luck!

Here are some photos of the marks and placement I was talking about.
View

And here are the multiple stamps on 2 very finely made knives.
View
 
John,

I notice that the cho style differs with the markings. Is the cho style a device of the kami, a device associated with the khukurie's form, or an indicator for the region or religious sect to which the owner belongs?

N2S
 
N2S, I don't know the answer to your questions. While western logic would place a certain type of cho with a kami I have not found this to be the case. Or even a certain armoury or type of blade requiring the 'right' cho doesn't seem to work. As a very old kami told me, "You make too much of this. It's just a knife, and a cho is just a cho". He and his friends would punch or file in whatever design they felt like doing.

I would think that a very high quality blade might have a special design ordered with the knife like the 'fleur de lys' pictured above.
 
Originally posted by Bill Martino
Maybe that's why Bura uses the cresent moon as his mark.
Click to expand...

Bro that could very well be. Bura chose that mark himself didn't he?

I would still like to know what I asked about....
[QUOTE"Does the above mean that perhaps a few kamis once had a certain amount of notoriety and were more favorably looked upon than the average 'untouchable' of today?
Did the Royal Kami at one time have a much more exalted position than Bura has today?"[/QUOTE] ... if anyone knows the answer?????

This is an excellent thread!!!!!!
 
YVSA,

It is pretty much a foregone conclusion that these guys were treated differently from the run-of-the-mill kami. Putting all else aside, we know from looking at some of these excellent kukuries that the these exceptional makers had both the skill and the time to invest in these pieces. They had wealthy patrons and where not under the same kind of pressure to crank out hundreds of village kukuries.

Their caste may have remained unchanged. But, it looks like their lot was a little easier.

n2s
 
Here's a better look at the cho on our logo khukuri. You'll seldom find a cho as intricate or executed as well. As far as I know it means only that the kami who made this knife could do very good work and was, perhaps, showing his stuff.

We assume the knife was made in Salyan because that's what the kami wrote on the blade and inlaid with gold. However, he did not see fit the put his own mark or name on the knife.
 

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