Military knife regulations

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Sep 29, 2008
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I'm about to join the U.S. Army.
One thing I can't find any info on is military knife laws. A buddy of mine in the service carries a small 3" folder and a Gerber multi-tool. He said he carried a Ka-Bar while deployed in Iraq but he doesn't know what can and cannot be carried.

Here's some stuff I'm curious about off the top of my head:

-What's the size limit for fixed blade knives?

-Is there a weight limit for fixed blade knives?

-Is there a list of manufacturers the military will only let you select fixed/folding knives and multi-tools from?

-What's the size limit on folding knives?

-Is there a maximum amount of knives you can carry at one time?

Obviously the classic USMC Ka-Bar has been carried for years so that's always a knife option. Right now I own a Cold Steel Recon Scout which is a 7.5 inch long blade and comes with a sheath that will fix to a combat vest. Yay or nay? Lots of other blades I'm thinking about but just wanted to see if anyone knows some of the knife regs for the military, Army especially.
 
These are questions your recruiter should be able to answer for you. Make him work for it.
 
What I've heard both from friends and relatives who are serving and just from the forums is that folders are generally OK everywhere, and I haven't heard about any regulations about what brands. I also haven't heard about any length requirements, but I would think that you would want to make sure the knife is legal in the state the base is in incase you want to carry your knife while off base. Granted an LEO isn't likely to hassle an active duty service member, but why take the chance.

I know that the PX usually has a variety of manufacturer's knives for sale. I haven't heard of any requirements of brands for knives, and I know several of our own custom makers have knives in Iraq and Afghanistan right now.

Fixed blades are ok when deployed and may be ok while on base/stateside depending on local command.

One of my cousins had a multi-tool issued to him when he got to Iraq. You can't bring knives to basic training anyway, and you're probably safe with a folder in the 3" range, so why not just buy something like that before you can figure out the rules, which I have a feeling your recruiter won't be able to give you a clear answer on as they vary by command. Wait to buy a fixed blade before you know what you can have, and I would even say hold off on a multi tool as you may be issued one.
 
Excellent advice Cmdionne. I've visited the PX in Fort Bragg, NC and seen the knives they have in stock. Just the basic Gerber, Kershaw, and Ka-Bar knives you'd find in an outdoor retail store.

I've already got a large selection of tools/knives to choose from so I'd just need to wait for the OK as far as regulations go.

Thanks for the input!
 
I resigned my RA commission in 1981 and haven't been on active duty since I was briefly recalled in 1990 thanks to Operation Desert Shield. I mention this because my experiences aren't in the current Army and some things have changed over the years, for the better and worse.

It's not military "laws" you're looking for. There are Army regulations which apply to all Army personnel (the next person who has read all or most of the ARs will be the first). Each post has it's own set of regulations and subordinate units establish their own written policies. While none of these are "laws," violation of any may subject you to judicial or non-judicial punishment under the UCMJ.

The fact a knife is available for sale in a PX doesn't necessarily mean it's OK for you to carry or store in your room in the barracks. I seriously doubt the Army has a list of acceptable knives by particular manufacturer. When I was on active duty, if you lived in the barracks any personal firearms were supposed to be stored in the unit arms room as well as large knives.

For all practical purposes, what you're "allowed" to carry is going to depend mostly on your MOS, location and superiors. A clerk-typist at Fort Knox is likely to have less leeway in what knives he may carry than a jumpmaster in Alaska or a Ranger in Afghanistan. Assuming you avoid contact with MPs (a really good idea), how decent your superiors are and what their opinion of you is will matter more than any written regulation/policy. It's your commanders who decide whether to impose any formal disciplinary action, not a piece of paper, and the discretion they possess is very great.

I routinely carried a SAK everywhere and a Gerber Mark II in the field in Vietnam when I was an enlisted man. Sometimes I'd catch some flak about the Gerber and then under the most bizarre circumstances. After I earned my commission as an Infantry officer, I couldn't have cared less whether my troops wore samurai swords or WWI trench knives. I was far more concerned about their character, intelligence, competence and marksmanship than whether their pocketknife had a blade a fraction of an inch over some wholly arbitrary limit set by a chair-warming, CYA-type colonel or general. Drug users preferred life in other units; soldiers interested in firearms and knives were happy serving under me.

My advice is for you to hold off buying any new knives until you've completed basic and AIT and been assigned to your permanent duty station. Ask your NCOs and junior officers what knives are acceptable for you to carry and then try to stay on their good side. If they approve of you, they can cut you all sorts of slack. Piss them off and they can make your life miserable.

I wish you the best of luck in the Army. When you swear your oath to "support and defend" the Constitution, it would be really nice if you had a serious comprehension of what the document means. Many folks swearing that oath haven't got a clue. In the Army, especially if you're in a leadership position, you may find yourself faced with the choice of doing what's morally right and what's popular/safe/expedient/best for your career. Please try and make the right decisions.
 
AbnInfantry, thankyou very much for taking the time to tell me all this. It's very much appreciated. It sounds like there are a few loop-holes in regulations and that it really boils down to who you know and how much they like you. My MOS will be an active duty 19D Cavalry Scout, the complete opposite of a desk job. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it but i will be in a small unit of men where getting along and not pissing people off is a do or die situation.

Again, thankyou for sharing your experience and recommendations. I will certainly take up on your advice.
 
AbnInfantry, thankyou very much for taking the time to tell me all this.

You're very welcome.

It sounds like there are a few loop-holes in regulations and that it really boils down to who you know and how much they like you.

It's not a matter of "loop-holes in regulations." It's a matter of whether your superiors blindly enforce the regulations or use some common sense. Unless the Army has changed drastically in recent years, you'll encounter many regulations/policies which are asinine and receive orders which are irrational, illegal and usually issued solely to advance/protect the career of a commander unfit IMHO to wear his uniform, let alone hold the rank he does. Good NCOs/junior officers will exercise sound judgment/moral courage and attempt to shield you; others won't.

When I led an Airborne rifle platoon in Alaska in 1979, I was ordered to perform what's called a "health and welfare inspection" of my soldiers' rooms in the barracks. Inside the first wall locker I opened was a Ruger .44 Magnum revolver in plain sight. I knew why the PFC had it (we were scheduled to go on a platoon canoe trip—"adventure training"—in a few days and personal firearms were authorized to be carried), but he was in violation of post/unit regulations by not storing it in the arms room. Another lieutenant might have put him in for an Article 15 or a court-martial; I told him to take it to the arms room and quit trying to get both of us in trouble. The next wall locker contained a bag of marijuana in plain sight. That paratrooper received a field-grade Article 15.

Here are some examples of the type of orders I was referring to:

1. Many years ago, U.S. Army MPs stationed in Germany were only authorized to load a live magazine into their pistols after receiving permission from a commissioned officer. They could only load a round into the chamber with authorization from a field-grade officer. It's unlikely a MP is going to have an officer handy, let alone a major or above, in a crisis situation.

2. The Marine guards present when a truck bomb destroyed their barracks in Beirut on 23 October 1983, killing almost 300 servicemen, had unloaded rifles in accordance with their "rules of engagement." When I was stationed at Fort Richardson, AK, on a rotational basis certain units provided armed guards to protect the base ammunition dump at nights/weekends. Soldiers performing such guard duty were only permitted to have five cartridges for their rifles. If there was a cogent reason why they were only allowed to have five rounds to defend virtually all the munitions on base, I can't imagine what it would be.

3. In 1978, my battalion was scheduled to deploy on a training exercise in an area of Alaska known to be infested with grizzly bears. Platoon sergeants were issued decrepit MP shotguns and a few rounds of old buckshot; platoon leaders were issued M1911A1 pistols and a single magazine of ball ammo. My company commander (who'd been passed over for major once and was sweating out his second, and last, chance) ordered us to not shoot a bear if it was charging toward our troops; we could only shoot if a bear was physically mauling/killing someone. He was willing to risk an injured or dead soldier rather than have to justify a dead grizzly bear to the Animal Rights crowd.

I explained that a grizzly bear could kill/maim a person in seconds and if one charged any of my soldiers, I'd fire instantly. Out of respect for my CO's wishes, however, I assured him that if I saw a bear chasing him I'd refrain from shooting. I'm not sure why this remark didn't please him but then USMA graduates and I rarely got along well.

I also said it would be more effective to use rifled slugs in the shotguns than buckshot and asked why we were expected to shoot an attacking grizzly bear with a .45 pistol instead of our M16A1 rifles. "Because we're not authorized to have M16 ammunition," he said. "You seriously think I go to the field with my platoon and don't bring live ammo with me? You really believe that?" I asked. You'll find no shortage of people in the military who would apparently be content to have their tombstone read, "He died doing only what he was 'authorized' to do."

My MOS will be an active duty 19D Cavalry Scout, the complete opposite of a desk job. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it but i will be in a small unit of men where getting along and not pissing people off is a do or die situation.

I was a Cav trooper (1st Air Cav in Vietnam) before you were probably born. :) When I was an enlisted man, the MOS you refer to was 11D (Armor Reconnaissance Specialist). It was converted from 11D to 19D (Cavalry Scout) on 1 March 1978. Prior to that date, tankers were MOS 11E (which made no sense as 11 series was otherwise Infantry). When the 19 series MOS was created, 11D was switched to 19D and 11E converted to 5 new tanker specialties (later reduced to three).

I will certainly take up on your advice.

I wish I had such success getting legislators and LEOs to follow my advice. :)
 
For those interested there is a description of a knife fight in SSG David Bellavia's book "House to House". Bellavia takes on an insurgent with a Gerber folder and cancels the insurgent's birth certificate. Pretty grim reading.
 
It's not a matter of "loop-holes in regulations." It's a matter of whether your superiors blindly enforce the regulations or use some common sense. Unless the Army has changed drastically in recent years, you'll encounter many regulations/policies which are asinine and receive orders which are irrational, illegal and usually issued solely to advance/protect the career of a commander unfit IMHO to wear his uniform, let alone hold the rank he does. Good NCOs/junior officers will exercise sound judgment/moral courage and attempt to shield you; others won't.

Unfortunate but true. I've been told this a few times from people I know in the service today, so it sounds like not a whole lot has changed. I guess that's just life.

1. Many years ago, U.S. Army MPs stationed in Germany were only authorized to load a live magazine into their pistols after receiving permission from a commissioned officer. They could only load a round into the chamber with authorization from a field-grade officer. It's unlikely a MP is going to have an officer handy, let alone a major or above, in a crisis situation.

I understand we have a similar situation today that has to do with the RoE. If you see a man with an AK-47 hiding in the distance by himself, you must ask your commanding officer whether to engage. But if an insurgent runs out from behind a building 20 feet away and you don't have time, you should open fire.

I explained that a grizzly bear could kill/maim a person in seconds and if one charged any of my soldiers, I'd fire instantly. Out of respect for my CO's wishes, however, I assured him that if I saw a bear chasing him I'd refrain from shooting. I'm not sure why this remark didn't please him but then USMA graduates and I rarely got along well.

Ha! That's brilliant. It certainly brings to light the ridiculousness of the order.

I was a Cav trooper (1st Air Cav in Vietnam) before you were probably born. :) When I was an enlisted man, the MOS you refer to was 11D (Armor Reconnaissance Specialist). It was converted from 11D to 19D (Cavalry Scout) on 1 March 1978. Prior to that date, tankers were MOS 11E (which made no sense as 11 series was otherwise Infantry). When the 19 series MOS was created, 11D was switched to 19D and 11E converted to 5 new tanker specialties (later reduced to three).

Well you certainly know your stuff, there's no denying it. Once again AbnInfantry, thanks for sharing your experience and crazy stories. There's no wasting it on me.



For those interested there is a description of a knife fight in SSG David Bellavia's book "House to House". Bellavia takes on an insurgent with a Gerber folder and cancels the insurgent's birth certificate. Pretty grim reading.

Thanks for the recommendation Fraser. I'll be sure to look that up.
 
Hi


I met a USAF SSGT back in January that was carrying a 18" WWII model Khukuri. He is now back at Ft. Hood texas with his family. He said the Army officers and the AF officers didn't mind.

The locals showed him greater respect he said...cause of the size of his Khukuri.
 
I'm about to join the U.S. Army.

Good choice - welcome.

Army has fairly strict rules about weapons and dangerous substances in the barracks - at my current duty station the size limit is 3.5" blade - either folding or fixed blade. At my previous base it was 4" blade. I carry ColdSteel American Lawman folder on me every day (about 3.5" blade) and keep the rest of my knives and some bayonets in the back of my truck - MPs looked through that box before during random gate inspections, but did not say anything.

Knife rules during deployment depend on your unit (that's what I was told - have not been deployed yet, scheduled for September). My squad leader had a guy in his squad clearing palaces in Iraq with Katana on his back..
 
I carried an ATC VTAC and a TOPS Moccasin Ranger in Iraq and no one said anything. When not deployed, I carried a Case Trapper (yeller handle) and left the big stuff at home. Like AbnInfantry said, it's a matter of what your higher-ups will allow.
 
I'm a SGT with the 2nd "Dagger" Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division currently deployed to Iraq and we don't have a "standing order" or policy regarding carry of knives or bladed weapons. Each company commander reserves his own discretion on an individual basis as to whether a soldier is allowed to carry a particular item but generally it's your squad leader that will make that call. Although, I don't think there's anyone in our outfit that would actually allow one of their guys to be running around with a sword on their back. It's a LOT different environment over here than it was in my first go 'round in '03.

Back in your home station you will be restricted to the post regulations(sometimes with your commander's additions) as to what you'll be allowed to keep in your barracks room. What you carry on you off post is regulated by state/local laws. The good news is that, while you may not be able to run around with your Conan Sword everywhere you go the unit will(and is obligated to) have a place for you to store it safely and securely in a tempurature/moisture controlled environment. I personally had my SOG Desert Dagger, Gil Hibben Highlander Bowie, and a sword and shield family crest(all purchased at my local PX) stored in the arms room while I was in Germany in 97-2000 and never had any problem taking them out and it's like our Airborne Veteran friend said earlier, if you get caught with something outside the regulation it's ultimately a judgment call of the person that finds it. Inspections are a neccessary part of our service so it will be a gamble if you plan on keeping your collection in your barracks room. If you're honest with your leaders and let them know you have these as collector's items and aren't some whacko that just likes to cut things(yes, there are a bunch of those guys wearing the uniform) I'm sure they'll be much more likely to pass over those things. Matter of fact that applies to pretty much everything. I know as a leader everytime I have to deal with an issue regarding one of my soldiers and I find out about it from someone higher up my chain or outside my chain of command it irritates me to no end(You'll find pretty quickly that an NCO's irritation = PT for you). That's my input. Hope you take somethin out of it and I'd like to personally thank you for joining the team. Keep your chin up and remember what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. ;)
 
Hi


I met a USAF SSGT back in January that was carrying a 18" WWII model Khukuri. He is now back at Ft. Hood texas with his family. He said the Army officers and the AF officers didn't mind.

The locals showed him greater respect he said...cause of the size of his Khukuri.

Interesting. Khukuris can be pretty big so that's pretty cool he was allowed it.

Good choice - welcome.

Knife rules during deployment depend on your unit (that's what I was told - have not been deployed yet, scheduled for September). My squad leader had a guy in his squad clearing palaces in Iraq with Katana on his back..

Thanks for the welcome. A katana? And I thought a kukuri was big! That's insane that he would be able to run around with a sword and have no problems. I guess it's true then, it really does depend on your unit and leaders.

I carried an ATC VTAC and a TOPS Moccasin Ranger in Iraq and no one said anything. When not deployed, I carried a Case Trapper (yeller handle) and left the big stuff at home. Like AbnInfantry said, it's a matter of what your higher-ups will allow.

Just looked up that TOPS knife and I'm pretty impressed. I don't know much about TOPS but that looks like a good fixed blade for sure. Thanks for sharing your experience.

That's my input. Hope you take somethin out of it and I'd like to personally thank you for joining the team. Keep your chin up and remember what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. ;)

Thankyou very much Sergeant for your input, welcoming, and advice. I take it all to heart. I'll have to remember that bit about making me stronger when the drill sergeants are smokin my ass. ;)
 
I'm about to join the U.S. Army.
One thing I can't find any info on is military knife laws. A buddy of mine in the service carries a small 3" folder and a Gerber multi-tool. He said he carried a Ka-Bar while deployed in Iraq but he doesn't know what can and cannot be carried.

Here's some stuff I'm curious about off the top of my head:

-What's the size limit for fixed blade knives?

-Is there a weight limit for fixed blade knives?

-Is there a list of manufacturers the military will only let you select fixed/folding knives and multi-tools from?

-What's the size limit on folding knives?

-Is there a maximum amount of knives you can carry at one time?

Obviously the classic USMC Ka-Bar has been carried for years so that's always a knife option. Right now I own a Cold Steel Recon Scout which is a 7.5 inch long blade and comes with a sheath that will fix to a combat vest. Yay or nay? Lots of other blades I'm thinking about but just wanted to see if anyone knows some of the knife regs for the military, Army especially.


you mean on or off base? or do you mean while he's in iraq? i've been to the sand box and they'll let you bring just about what ever you want (knife wise that is. no bringing your own firearms). but remember you pack it in nobody else is going to carry it for you.

if he's going to the sand box they'll issue him one of the new bayonets (really cool and i kept mine) which'll take care of just about everything. in the rear there'll be small knives for sale (decent prices and no taxes)
 
i forgot to mention if you bring a bilosong or a switch blade you might not get it back into the states. they search all your stuff when you come back stateside
 
you mean on or off base? or do you mean while he's in iraq? i've been to the sand box and they'll let you bring just about what ever you want (knife wise that is. no bringing your own firearms). but remember you pack it in nobody else is going to carry it for you.

if he's going to the sand box they'll issue him one of the new bayonets (really cool and i kept mine) which'll take care of just about everything. in the rear there'll be small knives for sale (decent prices and no taxes)

It's me that's joining, but I meant on base and overseas/deployed. Thanks for the info folderfan.
 
You may have an SOP regulating what you can carry on you LBE or body armor but no one really cares about pocket knives, carry what ever you want... I did ;)
 
its going to really come down to the CO. my friend that was USCG carried a few medium sized folders, some spring assist some not. basically it really comes down to, what will your realistically need in your specialty/area. using the USCG as an example, if you are on a boat doing SARs you have more reason to carry a 5 inch fixed blade, where as if your on the shore doing electrical, you dont really have the need/reason to it

-matt
 
I'm new here, but have to say Abninfantry really sems to know his stuff, and his words ring true. I look forward to reading more of his opinions.

Keithcarter
NRA Life
 
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