Military Lock vs. Axis Lock

wedgehead30

wedgehead30

Joined
May 16, 2003
Messages
20
I began my career in law enforcement carrying a Delica for several years. It was a great knife and served me well. In the last several years I have been carrying different Benchmade Axis lock knives. I am really impressed with the Axis lock and find it works very well for me. However I really want a bigger knife and the Benchmades don't have the size I'm looking for. I really like the Spyderco Military model, it reminds me of a Endura on steroids. But my only area of concern is the liner lock. I'm concerned that it could possibly disengage with a tight grip and a twisting motion. Is this fear unfounded ? Is the Military lock just as strong as the Axis?

I've been looking for a Plain, Non-Serrated - Black bladed Military. Does such a model exist?

Any opinions appreciated

TIA,
Wedge
:D
 
I believe the only Black Military out to date is a CE (combo edge). However, I think if you can get your hands on a Para-military PE (plain edge) you might be able to get Spyderco or an outside company to coat it for you. By the way, Para-military is basically the same knife but a smaller version of the military and a little bigger I think than Endura.
 
kudzu74 said:
By the way, Para-military is basically the same knife but a smaller version of the military and a little bigger I think than Endura.
Click to expand...

And a different lock.
 
I wouldn't be worried about either lock failing. I have 2 Militarys and the lockup on both is perfect. Technically the AXIS lock is stronger, but I don't see either lock failing. If you don't mind the smaller size, the ParaMilitary would be a good choice because of it's excellent locking mechanism. (Compression lock)
 
Too many linerlocks have failed at the most inopertune time for me to trust them and I no longer carry any in that lock configuration.

Do a search here as there have been several threads about failures on linerlocks either through extended use and the lock failing after a period of time due to wear or from the start.

Customs also suffer the same problems intermittently so it's not just commercially available products.

The compression lock would be my choice with the Para-Military.

That said, the military is one of the better linerlocks and seems less prone to accidental disengagement.

Brownie
 
I think the Axis-lock is definitely better than ANY Liner-lock--even the Military's Liner-lock.

Not to mention the Benchmades have dual metal liners instead of the single nested Liner-lock on the Military.

I'm also curious, what do you mean by a bigger knife?
The 806 and 805 are just barely shorter than the Military (which only has a 4" blade).

Have you considered the Spyderco Police model?
It has a longer blade than the Military and it's a very reliable lock-back like your old Delica.

Happy hunting,
Allen.
 
brownie0486 said:
Too many linerlocks have failed at the most inopertune time for me to trust them and I no longer carry any in that lock configuration.

Do a search here as there have been several threads about failures on linerlocks either through extended use and the lock failing after a period of time due to wear or from the start.

Customs also suffer the same problems intermittently so it's not just commercially available products.

The compression lock would be my choice with the Para-Military.

That said, the military is one of the better linerlocks and seems less prone to accidental disengagement.

Brownie
Click to expand...

I agree with the above from beginning to end. Spyderco is among the best liner lock manufacturers, but I tend not to use liner locks for anything other than gents' folder use anymore. If I had to choose between two knives that were relatively evenly matched, but one had a liner lock (even a great one) and the other a more reliable format (e.g., axis, compression, etc.), I'd jump at the latter.

The Benchmade Axis AFCK, in 154CM or tool steel, has a blade that's the same size as the Military's, and is otherwise just as formidable a knife, but has the axis lock. It's worth a look.

Joe
 
I've carried an older Spyderco Military 440V since it was first available, and have total confidence in the liner lock. It's been opened/closed/flicked/popped frequently for about 2 years, and wear in the locking surfaces is negligible.

I also have a newer Benchmade 806D2, with the excellent Axis Lock.

While the blade-grinds differ a bit, the blades are essentially equal in apparent tip-strength, piercing, slicing and edge-holding. The stainless blade of the Military is less prone to staining/corrosion, but the 806D2 blade is coated and I keep both blades clean.

I favor the Military for these carry-and-use properties:
- Width: the 806D2 is a full 1/8" wider than the Military.
- Weight: the Military is noticably lighter.
- Ergos: Choil and thumb-ramp of the Military enhance fine-cutting control.

My $.02.
 
Wedge,
On your original ? There was an older black bladed millie. I believe in both edge types. They are very hard to find and would probably cost a pretty penny. Of the newer Spydies the paramillie is shorter than the millie, it also has the compresion lock. There is also the Lil' Temp and Gunting these are tanks although with a 3in. blade. The Lil' Temp is a very smooth opener and the handle ergos are great, the gunting aimed directly at SD.
My 2cents US.
Chris
 
Thanks for the opinions guys. I do appreciate them. I recently picked up a BM 710 BT Axis and have been carrying it. It has replaced my BM Griptilian and I really like it so far. But I still have a hankering for a Spydie or two. So I'm going to hold out for the rumored forthcoming Military plain black blade and order a Paramilitary to hold me over in the mean time maybe a BM 805 TSEK too....so many knives so little cash.

Thanks again,
Wedge
 
I have no probs with mid to hi end knives with liner locks. The AL MAR SERE 2000 has a really strong one, very secure and proper line up.

For a really secure liner lock, check out the Gerber AF Covert or CRKT's liner locks with the LAWKS system. both of these liner locks have a switch that you push down (Gerber) or forward (CRKT) that causes a piece of metal to rotate in to block the liner lock in place, making it impossible to disengage the liner lock.

I was a lockback only guy for a long time, and I have never owned a liner lock spydie, only lockbacks.

Some manufacturers can do it, others maybe not so well. The Buck Crosslok got a lotta bad press for its thin liners that didn't seat right when engaged.

SOrry 4 the non-spydie content.

Keith
 
I wouldn't put the Military's liner lock in the strength class of the Axis lock, but it doesn't make much difference to me. I've been beating the snot out of my Militarys for years, and have had no problems whatsoever. I guess that I just don't need a lock stronger than the liner lock on the Military.
 
I'm so tired and annoyed by so many people here complaining about liner locks! :mad:

Like everything else, some companies make better products then others.

Hell, I'd feel just as safe with a Strider AR or GB, as with like the 806.

Strider knives are the most hardcore, built as a tank knives out there.
 
ajnova said:
I'm so tired and annoyed by so many people here complaining about liner locks!
Click to expand...

Sorry, Mr. Nova.

As famed poet O'Shea Jackson once said regarding another subject altogether:

"I make it my duty to cuss 'em
out 'cause I just don't trus' 'em"
 
thombrogan said:
Sorry, Mr. Nova.

As famed poet O'Shea Jackson once said regarding another subject altogether:

"I make it my duty to cuss 'em
out 'cause I just don't trus' 'em"
Click to expand...

By saying you don't trust them, you are cutting yourself off from a heck of a lot of knives. It's also not being opened minded.

It's just like cars.... A Chevy Cavalier has four wheels and four doors. Would I trust that car with my safety everyday? No. Would I trust a high end car when my safety? Yes. It has four doors and four wheels. [And sadly just like knives, all locks can and will fail. Just like you can die in any car out there.] Some knife makers make better liner locks, then others. As some make better lock backs then others. etc As some car makers make better cars. They appear the same... Liner lock... Four doors and wheels. However quality and material is what makes them what they really are.

Quite honestly, it seems pretty (and no offense) stupid, that you and others won't consider and quickly bash liner locks. Back to what I said earlier, Strider AR's and GB's are one tuff as **** knife - and they're liner locks. Two of the greatest tactical knives ever.

What really offends me as a Emerson fan and collector. And *especially* due to the fact, I have meet Mr. Emerson. With nothing but high high praise for him. That by bashing liner locks, you are bashing him beautiful custom knives.

Plus if nothing else... "If you don't have anything nice to say... Don't say anything at all."
 
ajnova stated "Quite honestly, it seems pretty (and no offense) stupid, that you and others won't consider and quickly bash liner locks."

Unfortunately thats not always the case as you presume above with many of us as we HAVE carried linerlocks for many years [ in my case anyway ] until I learend the hard way not to carry them through injuriy and failures with various linerlocks.

So many have considered them, owned them, carried them and now, through experiences they have personally with that type of locking mechanism no longer trust them to not fail at the most inopertune time.

Carried linerlocks for over a decade, not any more though. Thats through experiences with bvarious linerlocks, not some lack of consideration.

As to Emersons linerlocks, well, he may be a good friend of yours but in all honesty, his linerlocks are not something I'll consider from experiences with that product line.

See, I sell knives on the side at discount and have had too many Emerson linerlocks come from the factory over the years [ for customers ] not set properly and they fail NIB to be secure enough to not release the lock under spinal stresses/lateral stresses.

Is that something I even want to contend with in a folder I carry which may have to be called on to defend my butt? I think you know the answer to that already.

I've never met Ernie, I'm sure he is a consumate professional and gentleman, but that does not negate the fact that many of his linerlocking folders leave much top be desired where lock strength is concerned.

And yes, I agree, it is cutting myself off from a lot of nice designs and makes of folders by not carrying linerlocking folders. Thats no problem here as there are some very good folders that are not linerlocks on the market and that trend seems to be growing every year. Plenty to choose from that are not linerlocks.

My EDC's are not wanting for lack of linerlocks. No, I would not carry the AR or GB either [ they are linerlocks ]. Now give me an SMF or SnG, no problem.

Brownie
 
Not a poetry fan then, eh?

Actually, the main reason I don't like liner locks is because I'm left-handed.

You have to pay retail or higher to get a trustworthy liner lock if you're left-handed. Worse, two of the larger production houses usually decide that all lefties must want combo-edged blades while offering their right-handed customers the option of a plain edge. One company made a few lefty combo-edges, which no knifeknut will buy without just cause, and then stopped making them altogether claiming a lack of sales. Well, sure, if you only sell what someone doesn't want, it might not sell.

Mr. Emerson makes beautiful knives, but I can't get the online discounts that right-handed people get when they buy them. And when I have the money, I buy Spydercos or HI Khukuris which are also beautiful.
 
Has anyone here ever had one of the liner lock Spydies with the adustable ccentric pivot fail when the pivot is properly adjusted? The eccentric pivot allows the blade tang/liner junction, the point that is critical to the strength of a liner lock, to be adjusted to maximize the accuracy of the joint's fit. I have actually tried to get my StarMate to unlock, twisting it, whacking the back of the blade, any number of things, and all to no avail. Therefore, I am inclined toward the decision that (1) all liner locks are not created equal and (2) that the Spyderco adjustable eccentric pivot has perfected the liner lock to the point where I, at least, can trust it omplicitly.
 
I won't even trust my lockbacks like the Chinook2 or Persian explicitly.

I'm afraid if I do, they'll fail at the most inopertune time [ when my fingers are in the way ].

Brownie
 
I have three Militaries and never has there been any problems with the lock.

Did you know the recesed liner lock on the Mil can hold 500lbs plus before it fails? Did you know many frame locks fail before this?

On the other hand my Spyderco Starmate had a shockingly bad lock up and was returned and exchanged for a Military. That ws a one off, but shows liner locks can be and are sensitive to failure compared to other locks.

However... I also have a Strider AR liner lock and if that fails in use... Well the hand and wrist holding the lock would fail first!!!!! :rolleyes:

If anyone has seen the lock on the Chinook II then I would be surprised if that could be described as untrustworthy... :D
 
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