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Military personell: How do you use your fixed blade?
- Thread starter Claus
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 22, 1999
- Messages
- 3,357
It's a shame that whenever we attempt to discuss tools and their uses in reality, such as knives used for self-defense or as military equipment, we are invariably assaulted with the usual shrill cries of "glorifying death" and other such nonsense.
Reality is harsh. Discussing it doesn't glorify it, and the words we use here as knife enthusiasts aren't murdering anyone.
War is a part of reality, and knives have very real applications as part of military "kit."
Those who wish to pretend this is not true are encouraged to GET OVER IT.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
"Fear never arrives."
Right and wrong are not determined by consensus.
Reality is harsh. Discussing it doesn't glorify it, and the words we use here as knife enthusiasts aren't murdering anyone.
War is a part of reality, and knives have very real applications as part of military "kit."
Those who wish to pretend this is not true are encouraged to GET OVER IT.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
"Fear never arrives."
Right and wrong are not determined by consensus.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Messages
- 4,531
I was on ships mostly when I was in the service. I used my knife alot. Most of what I cut was rope and packing materials.
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Although it does not mindfully keep guard in the small mountain fields, the scarecrow does not stand in vain
Bukkoku
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Although it does not mindfully keep guard in the small mountain fields, the scarecrow does not stand in vain
Bukkoku
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
- Messages
- 1,499
Finally this thread came to some sense...
Friends, I should try to explain something. In certain areas of Germany, mostly South and Western-South (Claus, correct me please if I'm wrong) the knife traditionally is the indispensable part of man's attire. Frequently it is carried in special shallow pocket on the hip exposing the rear part of handle only. For ex. HUBERTUS Company in Solingen makes this kind of traditionally shaped knives with sheaths without any belt attaching device, nicely finished horn handle and artistically made butt cup. I'll look through my collection and if I'll find something in this sort I'll show you.
Claus, it's great difference what kind of military personnel you are going to equip, so the knife also should be different. As professional soldier (in the past) I would equip myself with 3,5-4" fixed blade as light as possible. It is really not too much probability to take part in knife fight in modern warfare even if you would specially look for such occasions. All what I need to use my knife for I can do with for ex. SPYDERCO Bill Moran Featherweight so why should I carry heavier knife?
Another matter is the conscript soldier, seems Americans have managed to forget this issue
If conscript soldier is able to break something he certainly will do it! So Bill Moran Featherweight wouldn't live in his hands longer than one-two days. Well, lets give him somewhat stronger knife, for ex. Fällkniven F1, maybe it will survey during entire duty period
But certainly for modern soldier the knife is the tool, not weapon. So all so-called military-styled knives, fighting knives, combat knives etc. are (in my opinion) some kind of anachronism, like Mauser 1898 rifle in military service.
Friends, I should try to explain something. In certain areas of Germany, mostly South and Western-South (Claus, correct me please if I'm wrong) the knife traditionally is the indispensable part of man's attire. Frequently it is carried in special shallow pocket on the hip exposing the rear part of handle only. For ex. HUBERTUS Company in Solingen makes this kind of traditionally shaped knives with sheaths without any belt attaching device, nicely finished horn handle and artistically made butt cup. I'll look through my collection and if I'll find something in this sort I'll show you.
Claus, it's great difference what kind of military personnel you are going to equip, so the knife also should be different. As professional soldier (in the past) I would equip myself with 3,5-4" fixed blade as light as possible. It is really not too much probability to take part in knife fight in modern warfare even if you would specially look for such occasions. All what I need to use my knife for I can do with for ex. SPYDERCO Bill Moran Featherweight so why should I carry heavier knife?
Another matter is the conscript soldier, seems Americans have managed to forget this issue
If conscript soldier is able to break something he certainly will do it! So Bill Moran Featherweight wouldn't live in his hands longer than one-two days. Well, lets give him somewhat stronger knife, for ex. Fällkniven F1, maybe it will survey during entire duty period
But certainly for modern soldier the knife is the tool, not weapon. So all so-called military-styled knives, fighting knives, combat knives etc. are (in my opinion) some kind of anachronism, like Mauser 1898 rifle in military service.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 1999
- Messages
- 1,819
Good Evening.
It is I, THE GREAT AND POWERFUL VAMPIRE GERBIL!
Claus, I don't have any experience with using knives in the military. For the short time I was in, the DI's claimed that they treated us like such crap, they weren't about to hand us knives to put on the ends of our rifles!
I am here to give you some grief about being German.
It is YOUR fault that I have an addiction to knives!
I was in Uberlingen, W. Germany in 1968, and my uncle gave me 3 knives. Even though we couldn't understand each other's language, he still managed to get his point across, that being, "Nicht spechen das tu der mutter".
So now I'm a thoroughly well armed 8 year old, and it's gotten worse ever since.
Naturally, I blame Germany for my problem.
Uncle Hans was a great guy.... I remember a time that he came to the US to visit and we went out to dinner with my ex wife, and her parents.
Uncle Hans was in the war, and so was my wife's father.
I remember watching them sit across from each other, knowing that at one time, they would have been trying to kill one another, but now they were passing the salt.
Makes ya think.....
Anyhow, that's about as coherrent as I get, so I better go.
Auf Wiedersen, etc.
VG
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Vampire Gerbil: Nosferatus Rodentus Moderatus; similar to a domestic gerbil, except for the odd accent and little black cape.
+ + + + + + + + +
There's all sortsa fun stuff at my Vampire Gerbil Dot Com Website!.
Knife Content: The Deadly & Scary Leatherman Micra Self Defense Site and The Ballistic Knife Page.
It is I, THE GREAT AND POWERFUL VAMPIRE GERBIL!
Claus, I don't have any experience with using knives in the military. For the short time I was in, the DI's claimed that they treated us like such crap, they weren't about to hand us knives to put on the ends of our rifles!
I am here to give you some grief about being German.
It is YOUR fault that I have an addiction to knives!
I was in Uberlingen, W. Germany in 1968, and my uncle gave me 3 knives. Even though we couldn't understand each other's language, he still managed to get his point across, that being, "Nicht spechen das tu der mutter".
So now I'm a thoroughly well armed 8 year old, and it's gotten worse ever since.
Naturally, I blame Germany for my problem.
Uncle Hans was a great guy.... I remember a time that he came to the US to visit and we went out to dinner with my ex wife, and her parents.
Uncle Hans was in the war, and so was my wife's father.
I remember watching them sit across from each other, knowing that at one time, they would have been trying to kill one another, but now they were passing the salt.
Makes ya think.....
Anyhow, that's about as coherrent as I get, so I better go.
Auf Wiedersen, etc.
VG
------------------
Vampire Gerbil: Nosferatus Rodentus Moderatus; similar to a domestic gerbil, except for the odd accent and little black cape.
+ + + + + + + + +
There's all sortsa fun stuff at my Vampire Gerbil Dot Com Website!.
Knife Content: The Deadly & Scary Leatherman Micra Self Defense Site and The Ballistic Knife Page.
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,494
I have never served in the military, however, I wanted to recount a couple of references from John L. Plaster's SOG A Photo History of the Secret Wars.
Medal of Honor recipient Roy Benevidez, was already shot and badly bleeding when as he writes in his book Medal of Honor...
"I now had only one weapon with me, my Special Forces (SOG) knife. I reached for it, and when I did (an NVA) pointed his bayonet at the front of my belly. Fortunately, he hesitated, and it gave me enough time to get to my feet. He sliced my left arm with the bayonet.... I stabbed him with every bit of strength I had left, and when he died I left my S.F. knife in him. (Roy managed to board a helecopter and escape with seven gunshot wounds, 28 shrapnel holes, and a bayonet slash)
Another Medal of Honor recipient, Jon Cavaiani, used a Gerber Mark II when his outpost was overrun in 1971. The only living American among 100 NVA. He used his knife to kill an NVA that had entered the bunker in which he was hiding, and later left the same knife stuck in another NVA's chest while trying to escape at night. He was captured several days later and spent two years as a POW.
In both cases the knives were used because they were the only remaining weapon at hand.
Medal of Honor recipient Roy Benevidez, was already shot and badly bleeding when as he writes in his book Medal of Honor...
"I now had only one weapon with me, my Special Forces (SOG) knife. I reached for it, and when I did (an NVA) pointed his bayonet at the front of my belly. Fortunately, he hesitated, and it gave me enough time to get to my feet. He sliced my left arm with the bayonet.... I stabbed him with every bit of strength I had left, and when he died I left my S.F. knife in him. (Roy managed to board a helecopter and escape with seven gunshot wounds, 28 shrapnel holes, and a bayonet slash)
Another Medal of Honor recipient, Jon Cavaiani, used a Gerber Mark II when his outpost was overrun in 1971. The only living American among 100 NVA. He used his knife to kill an NVA that had entered the bunker in which he was hiding, and later left the same knife stuck in another NVA's chest while trying to escape at night. He was captured several days later and spent two years as a POW.
In both cases the knives were used because they were the only remaining weapon at hand.
GronK
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2001
- Messages
- 19,320
This reminds me of the time about 10 years ago when I went into a local "martial arts" shop looking at guns and knives. I hadn't been keeping up with the knife world then, so didn't know about the "Blackjack" line. I spotted the #1-7 and asked the young, gung-ho type behind the counter for a closer look, telling him it was much like the Randall I carried in Vietnam. As I picked it up my hand started visibly shaking and I got a crazed look on my face as I said, "Man, if you only knew the number of times. . ." (dramatic pause as the clerk backed warily away from the back side of the counter) "I opened my C-rats with one of these!!" (as my face changed to a wry smile)
I know, mean trick to play on him. I made it all better by buying the knife.
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GronK
Just 'cause yer paranoid don't mean someone ain't out to get ya!
I know, mean trick to play on him. I made it all better by buying the knife.
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GronK
Just 'cause yer paranoid don't mean someone ain't out to get ya!
larry harley
BANNED
- Joined
- Mar 19, 1999
- Messages
- 516
Since most members of the military are not at "the tip of the spear" (combat troops).
Most military knives aren't going to be used in combat.
And even the knives that are carried into battle, are rarely used as weapons.
The "hand-to-hand combat" that they usually experience, includes...
- Opening food containers.
- Building or improving shelter.
- Cutting ropes or webbing.
- Prying open crates and boxes.
- Opening a letter from home.
- Etc.
Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen (of any country) use their knives for many of the same purposes that civilians do.
They just get paid less.
Sorry to disappoint some of you folks. But, the only blood that most of these knives see is when the user cuts his own finger
.
Jon
Most military knives aren't going to be used in combat.
And even the knives that are carried into battle, are rarely used as weapons.
The "hand-to-hand combat" that they usually experience, includes...
- Opening food containers.
- Building or improving shelter.
- Cutting ropes or webbing.
- Prying open crates and boxes.
- Opening a letter from home.
- Etc.
Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen (of any country) use their knives for many of the same purposes that civilians do.
They just get paid less.
Sorry to disappoint some of you folks. But, the only blood that most of these knives see is when the user cuts his own finger
Jon
When I've been out on "field duty" stateside, I always carried Gerber Multi-pliers and a large folder in belt sheaths, pocket carry will usually get them lost. I lost a stainless Spyderco Police model that way
. A lot of the commanding officers were "sheeple" and they didn't like to see the troops wearing large fixed-blade sheath knives or bayonets when we were doing field exercises. They are pretty useless anyways (the large knives that is)
since a smaller, lighter knife will do the same job most of the time IN THIS ENVIRONMENT. Furthermore, anytime you whipped out a large knife in front of some of the "combat support" troops many of these "REMFS" (Rear-Echelon-Mother-F-----s) would freak out!
Most of the time I used my folders to cut rope, slice bread and veggies, open MRE's and packages, spread cheese and peanut butter on crackers, and trim small branches. The pliers were handy for cutting commo wire, attaching the sweat bands to the Kevlars (helmets), tightening down loose nuts on equipment, etc. As you've said earlier, all light chopping and digging was done with a small shovel (entrenching tool). I hope this gives you some insight.