Military, plain CMP440V How Good? Brittle?

The General

The General

Joined
Jun 6, 2000
Messages
3,625
I am ordering one of these. How good is the rust resistance, edge holding, toughness and overall ability to perform? A lot to ask! Is it worth the price? Any owners got some feedback for me! Thanks all of you :-)

How will it compare to my Benchmade 710 plain in M2 or my AFCK M2 combo? How about my D2 clip point folder from KABAR?

All the belly best!

W.A.

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I've had a serrated 440V miltary for a long time now.The blade is very rust resistant.
I dont find it is brittle and it holds and edge for ages.I don't have anything with M2 except an old Gerber and the edge grinds are too different to compare.
I'm sure you'll be happy with your new knife, and yes they are worth the money.


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Ricki
info@outdooredge.com.au
outdooredge.com.au
 
With a 17% chromium content CPM440V is on the higher scale of corrosion resistance. It' s 2.15% carbon content allows for an extremely sharp edge. A while back, the Military model has taken a lower rockwell rating than from the earlier production models which were claimed to be too hard and therefore somewhat brittle. I don' t recall the scale ratings though.

Do a search on the infamous staple test!!

L8r,
Nakano
 
Heh, heh, heh...
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IMO, the Military with 440V is a good knife. 440V is not my favorite steel, but then again, neither is ATS-34, which a lot of people like.

Check out this review of the Military by Jeff Randall at Jungle Training. He used it hard, in harsh conditions, and it worked well.

If you do the search for the "staple test," you will see that the Military, like any other knife, or blade, has its weak points (if Nakano is talking about my staple test). The staple test is not a big deal... the edge just rolled or chipped when I accidentally hit a staple --- normal office variety -- by accident. And actually, it was my BladeForums Native with the 440V blade, hardened to the same Rc, not a Military. If the Mil is not too big for you, I would recommend it. I have one, and use it regularly, very happy with it.

The design itself, in particular, is GREAT, IMO.

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iktomi
 
It is very rust resistant, and very tough.
You will not be disappointed, it's a great knife.
 
No complaints on this one!
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I've thrashed it pretty much to find the military living up to my expectations! I'll be putting in an order for a plain-edged one! *yeahoooo!*
biggrin.gif


Sam

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have spydies
will travel...
AKTI Member #A001148
 
Hey Sal hows it hangin?
For the record I did order a Serrated Mil about a year ago. I recieved an ATS-34 model and did not want it so I sent it back. Now I did look at the knife and liked what I saw. I think the 440v model plain is more to my liking!

The Starmate does look the mutts nuts however! One I will have to get at some point!

Have a good un!

W.A.
 
10- 4 Rockspyder.
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I use my ATS34 model much more than my 440V. In fact I' ve ran into a few large industrial type copper(?) staples while cutting up large corrugated cardboard boxes. No ill efects! I haven' t done that with the 440V but I do notice that ALL of them I' ve handled have a much larger edge bevel than any ATS34 model. Perhaps this is a factor?...

L8r,
Nakano

Oh yes, the Military is my overwhelming favorite for ICS (Inside Cycling Shorts) carry and for use in the shop... along with my Delica in its locked open position in my recently received River City neck sheath! A review to come soon.

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 10-09-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser:
Rockspyder. Thanx. BTW, what is your preferred steel and why?
Click to expand...

Oh WOW... hard question, really. Believe it or not, I like your ATS-55 better than either of the other two (440V or ATS-34), although I have my first "Spydie" ATS-34 blade on its way here now: Big Wegner.
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The ATS-55 seems to take a nicer edge, more easily, and hold it as long as the 440V, or more so. Based on an ATS-55 Standard vs. BF Native. The ATS-34 that I have experience with (both custom and production) just doesn't seem to take a nice toothy edge like the ATS-55. Call me crazy, but that is the way it feels. 154CM is high up there, too, because it takes a nice edge and is stainless. Reasonable tough, seemingly, although I haven't tried hogging out any sheet metal yet. Did that with my ATS-34 BM710. It held up surprisingly well, better than I would have believed.

As far as favorite, I would have to say D2, if you're talking true steel (i.e., not Talonite or Stellite), because it takes a REALLY toothy edge, is reasonably stainless, tough, and holds that shaving edge a long time. But that is in a custom; I don't own any D2 production knives. BG42 is running a close second, pushing heavily for first. That is in a couple of Buck knives. It is more stainless, seems to get an even toothier edge than the D2, and holds that edge almost as long as the D2. I would probably say that I would like D2 more than BG42 because it supposedly is tougher?

M2, which had previously been a favorite, has dropped down the list because it has shown itself to be much less stain resistant (not surprisingly) than D2 or BG42, while only holding its edge marginally longer than BG42, but less than D2. At least the best I can tell.

So, to summarize, I guess it would be:
(1) D2 / BG42 (good stain resistance, great toothy edge, and great edge holding)
(2) 154CM (great stain resistance, good edge, good edge holding)
(3) M2 (great edge, very good edge holding)
(4) ATS-55 (great stain resistance, good edge, good edge holding)
(5) ATS-34 (good stain resistance, decent edge, good edge holding)
(6) CPM440V (good stain resistance, good edge, decent edge holding) {Changed my mind. Instead of "good edge," it should be "good <u>toothy</u> edge."}

Hopefully that all makes sense. If not, ping me on it; I can always use some straightening up.

Looking at the top of that list, I would assume you see why I look forward to a leetle Military in BG42... or the fixed bladed Wegner in BG42....
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Don't get me wrong, Sal, or anyone else. I REALLY like the Military. I carry it often, and put it to good use. Heck, when I was at the pig roast over the weekend, and someone asked for a knife, guess which one I handed them.
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Like I said, the Military is a great knife based PURELY on its design alone. I would recommend it even if it was in AUS-8, I believe. Although, I don't really have any experience with that steel.

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iktomi

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 10-16-2000).]
 
Oh yeah, Nakano... I agree... my neighbor's ATS-34 Military seems to have a finer edge bevel than my 440V. But, his is pretty old, and obviously sharpened, so I don't know how it came from the factory. My 440V Military is a little thinner at the edge bevel now.
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But, I promise I won't complain if I nick something with it and turn the edge a little. OBTW, speaking of turning the edge... Talonite in a fine edge takes, like, NOTHING to turn the edge!
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I just nicked the faucet while cutting up vegetables over the weekend, and it put a noticeable nick in the edge. Fortunately, I was able to steel out most of it, on the lip of a smooth ceramic coffee cup. Whew!

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iktomi
 
Rock, thanx for the input. Interesting input. Pretty close to the numbers. We're still recording results. Setting up data.

One of these days, we'll put it all together. The variations in edge angle and Rockwell is great. The differences in Corrosion resistance is also affected by heat treat.

Collecting this data is at least a part time job. We now have someone doing just that.

We have not yet set up a "toughness" test...but we will.

I think that what we are seeking is the "real truth" about the potentials of each steel. There are many variables and even some "tricks" like heat treating make differences.

Having a crew member doing this is expensive for a small company to carry on a regular basis, but "seeking truth" is, or should be, a high priority goal. Of couse this only has value if performance is an issue.

In reality, all of the steels that you mentioned are "good" steels and would serve a user well. We get to "splitting hairs" (pardon the pun) on certain issues, and must keep perspective with reality.

"All good, just diffeent".

Also different for different applications.

sal
 
I notice Rockspyder didn't mention VG-10. Maybe just no experience? I have several Spydies in VG-10 now and I love it. It will really take a fine edge. My original Moran _still_ has its factory edge (unsharpened) and it's been used to cut up dozens of chickens. My full size plain Calypso can easily cut free hanging pieces of paper into slices. And both my Shabaria and Mouse Skinner are razor sharp. That little Mouse is so sharp the slightest press of a fingertip into the edge and you are going into skin. A good knife to keep away from rookies who always want to "test the edge" on their fingers!

Gregg
 
One interesting thing about Rockspyder's list is his emphasis on "great toothy edge." I take this to mean that he sharpens edges only to a medium smoothness, and doesn't polish his edges.

I am quite the opposite in preferring highly-polished "hair-popping" sharp edges. I wonder then, how these various steels would rate for someone like me who uses polished rather than toothy edges? I have mainly used ATS-34 since it seems to hold a very fine edge for a very long time.

Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Carlos (edited 10-14-2000).]
 
I have the Military In 440V steel, serrated. I carry it daily and really like it. It's scary sharp and is my knife for when it absolutly has to be cut RIGHT NOW!! I did a bad thing and was cutting a heavy webbing that had hung up on a crate and got stuck on the side of the crain. This was military 2.5" 6,000lb test on a Army Reserve drill. The crate was threatening to come apart and needed to be freed so it didn't come apart and scatter contents. So I cut it. Took about a second to get through and it was free from the vehicle. Someone decided to load the box to heavy and the crane couldn't get it off the bolt it was hung up on. I did however end up jamming the tip into the truck side and blunted it. It seemed to just snap the last .5 milimeter off. No biggy though.

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Riley
Do it right,or not at all.
 
Originally posted by tulsamal:
I notice Rockspyder didn't mention VG-10. Maybe just no experience? I have several Spydies in VG-10 now and I love it. It will really take a fine edge. My original Moran _still_ has its factory edge (unsharpened) and it's been used to cut up dozens of chickens. My full size plain Calypso can easily cut free hanging pieces of paper into slices. And both my Shabaria and Mouse Skinner are razor sharp. That little Mouse is so sharp the slightest press of a fingertip into the edge and you are going into skin. A good knife to keep away from rookies who always want to "test the edge" on their fingers!
Click to expand...

Correct, I did not mention VG-10 because of my lack of experience. I DO have a VG-10 blade, an original Spydie Moran (polished), that I have modified to more of a clip point. BUT, in spite of my modification, I just do not use it that much. Not sure why. Maybe it is the Moran edge? Dunno. But, I will agree that that is one sharp mutha! Maybe I'll start using it more. One thing that I can say is that it didn't seem to mind being in the salt air of Hawaii for a few days last spring. That really doesn't say THAT much for VG-10; but if it had corroded, it would have said something (not sure what, though.... nevermind, I'm rambling now).

Originally posted by Carlos:
One interesting thing about Rockspyder's list is his emphasis on "great toothy edge." I take this to mean that he sharpens edges only to a medium smoothness, and doesn't polish his edges.
I am quite the opposite in preferring highly-polished "hair-popping" sharp edges. I wonder then, how these various steels would rate for someone like me who uses polished rather than toothy edges? I have mainly used ATS-34 since it seems to hold a very fine edge for a very long time.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

No, I sharpen to the fine (white) Spydie stones, and look for a great toothy edge. Ya see, I'm one of those that likes to test the edge on my thumb. If it is sharp enough to shave, then it is sharp enough to slice a think layer of fingerprint off. What I have found is that with certain steels (and cobalts... at least Talonite), you can get an edge on the Spydie-whites, that will do both very well, but also cut plastic and whittle wood very well. However, some steels can only do this if you only sharpen them down to the Spydie-browns. I have found that ATS-34 sharpened to Spydie-white (or polished) will shave nicely and slice a fingerprint; but if you try to cut plastic (like food packaging), it will hang up sometimes. If you try to whittle wood, especially a soft wood like poplar, or balsa, it will catch fibers of the wood and drag them along, not slicing cleanly. Very frustrating. In my experience, D2 & BG42 will cut the plastic and the poplar very nicely, even sharpened on the Spydie whites, and feel different in the fingerprint slicing test; they feel like they drag a little or something... toothy. 154CM seems to do pretty well for all 4 things, but not quite as toothy as the first two. In all honesty, 440V can get that great toothy edge (don't know why I didn't say that in the list), but suffers because in the tasks that I use it for, it doesn't hold its edge as well.

To me, ATS-34 just doesn't ever feel toothy, unless you only sharpen it to a medium edge, i.e. the Spydie-browns.

So, does any of that make sense?

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iktomi
 
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